From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ihemail4.lucent.com (ihemail4.lucent.com [135.245.0.39]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "ihemail4.lucent.com", Issuer "Entrust Certification Authority - L1C" (not verified)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB5CD21F1D1 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 08:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-5-2-65.lucent.com [135.5.2.65]) by ihemail4.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id r2LFQ7rK003579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:26:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70uwxchhub01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.48]) by us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id r2LFQ6n2016049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:26:07 -0400 Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (135.239.2.74) by US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (135.5.2.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:26:06 -0400 Received: from [172.31.133.208] (135.239.27.40) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (135.239.2.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 16:25:35 +0100 Message-ID: <514B266E.8000000@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 16:25:34 +0100 From: Ing-Jyh Tsang Organization: Alcatel-Lucent User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/20.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <25677.1363877592@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <25677.1363877592@sandelman.ca> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050702060509000003010004" X-Originating-IP: [135.239.27.40] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.39 Subject: Re: [Bloat] other people's VLAN congestion X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 15:26:12 -0000 --------------050702060509000003010004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those queues can and should be correctly managed and configured. Both in terms of queue size and/or use of /RFC 2697/ or /RFC 2698/ , depend on each operator and what they are selling (SLA) .... On 21/03/2013 15:53, Michael Richardson wrote: > This is for the page where we list places that you may have bufferbloat > and be unable to see it. I think that there is a place in the wiki, but > I have to locate it, and I started writing this offline. > > Many owners of (managed) fiber sell NNI to Access Port "LAN Extension" > services. Typically there is a 1GB/s ethernet NNI in the data center, > and a VLAN is assigned to travel to a 10Mb/s or 100Mb/s port at each site. > > The consumer of this service is usually (Boutique) ISPs, but also larger > enterprises. Without oversubscribing the NNI, the provider of the > fiber may have oversubscribed the service, and this can cause queues to > develop inside of this layer-2 network. Even without oversubscription > in the provider network, instantaenous bursts can sometimes cause > significant jitter and buffer consumption. > > These buffers may have nothing to do with the consumer's > traffic. Addition of buffers here reduces the drop probability therefore > appears to the provider to be a good idea. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --------------050702060509000003010004 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those queues can and should be correctly managed and configured. Both in terms of queue size and/or use of RFC 2697
or RFC 2698, depend on each operator and what they are selling (SLA) ....

On 21/03/2013 15:53, Michael Richardson wrote:
This is for the page where we list places that you may have bufferbloat
and be unable to see it.  I think that there is a place in the wiki, but
I have to locate it, and I started writing this offline.

Many owners of (managed) fiber sell NNI to Access Port "LAN Extension"
services. Typically there is a 1GB/s ethernet NNI in the data center,
and a VLAN is assigned to travel to a 10Mb/s or 100Mb/s port at each site.

The consumer of this service is usually (Boutique) ISPs, but also larger
enterprises.   Without oversubscribing the NNI, the provider of the
fiber may have oversubscribed the service, and this can cause queues to
develop inside of this layer-2 network.  Even without oversubscription
in the provider network, instantaenous bursts can sometimes cause
significant jitter and buffer consumption.  

These buffers may have nothing to do with the consumer's
traffic. Addition of buffers here reduces the drop probability therefore
appears to the provider to be a good idea.




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