From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ihemail3.lucent.com (ihemail3.lucent.com [135.245.0.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "ihemail3.lucent.com", Issuer "Entrust Certification Authority - L1C" (not verified)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA32F21F205 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us70tusmtp1.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-5-2-63.lucent.com [135.5.2.63]) by ihemail3.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id r2M7BMtB023695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Mar 2013 02:11:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from US70TWXCHHUB04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70twxchhub04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.36]) by us70tusmtp1.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id r2M7BFBK003847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 22 Mar 2013 03:11:22 -0400 Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (135.239.2.112) by US70TWXCHHUB04.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (135.5.2.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 03:11:16 -0400 Received: from [172.31.133.208] (135.239.27.41) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (135.239.2.112) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:11:03 +0100 Message-ID: <514C0406.3070601@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 08:11:02 +0100 From: Ing-Jyh Tsang Organization: Alcatel-Lucent User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/20.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Richardson References: <25677.1363877592@sandelman.ca> <514B266E.8000000@alcatel-lucent.com> <14148.1363884839@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <14148.1363884839@sandelman.ca> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050007050000070508000700" X-Originating-IP: [135.239.27.41] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.37 Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] other people's VLAN congestion X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 07:11:24 -0000 --------------050007050000070508000700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 21/03/2013 17:53, Michael Richardson wrote: > You'd think that, and the operator I know of is happy to sell an SLA > for more money. But, the "best effort" service had the property that > packets were never dropped, but were regularly late, even though my > edge CPE equipment was prioriziting the way I wanted. Rigth, in case of BE, not much is done, but mechanism are there. What are the incentives for the operators (you get what you pay for...)? However, as higher and higher access BW is offered/sold, this becomes more visible and operators I know does something about it, all the way to the CPE. I think the main question is can we improve beyond /RFC 2697/ or /RFC 2698/ ? Specially with adaptive systems. On the other hand, many hesitated on the "adaptive", more "intelligence" systems siding/claiming control and stability... Due to lack of knowledge, mind frame, or ... --------------050007050000070508000700 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 21/03/2013 17:53, Michael Richardson wrote:
You'd think that, and the operator I know of is happy to sell an SLA for more money. But, the "best effort" service had the property that packets were never dropped, but were regularly late, even though my edge CPE equipment was prioriziting the way I wanted.

Rigth, in case of BE, not much is done, but mechanism are there. What are the incentives for the operators (you get what you pay for...)? However, as higher and higher access BW is offered/sold, this becomes more visible and operators I know does something about it, all the way to the CPE. I think the main question is can we improve beyond RFC 2697 or RFC 2698? Specially with adaptive systems. On the other hand, many hesitated on the "adaptive", more "intelligence" systems siding/claiming control and stability... Due to lack of knowledge, mind frame, or ...
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