From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; dkim=none; arc=none (Message is not ARC signed); dmarc=fail (Used From Domain Record) header.from=umbernetworks.com policy.dmarc=quarantine Received: from mail.umbernetworks.com (mail.umbernetworks.com [198.74.51.139]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD4AD1691137 for ; Fri, 18 Sep 2026 23:41:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from webmail.umbernetworks.com (files.umbernetwork.com [198.74.51.139]) by mail.umbernetworks.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3BB5721BEAF; Fri, 18 Sep 2026 21:41:41 +0000 (UTC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 14:41:41 -0700 From: bob.mcmahon@umbernetworks.com To: Rich Brown Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net, Igor Aleinikov , "Dave.seddon Ca" , Morten , Jiml , Jason Abele , Shotaro Saito , Carlos Jones , Thomas , Robin Jarry , Tim Odriscoll , Jim , Koen DS In-Reply-To: <571D6921-B222-4ECF-B1F9-71184074C5DA@gmail.com> References: <178969057349.1938.14005152589460246388@gauss> <571D6921-B222-4ECF-B1F9-71184074C5DA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51fcb5e3d6e874c970425c7249980625@umbernetworks.com> X-Sender: bob.mcmahon@umbernetworks.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID-Hash: PTWIH3TNGGPFZAZ3VUJOUNYTNH5O7FLF X-Message-ID-Hash: PTWIH3TNGGPFZAZ3VUJOUNYTNH5O7FLF X-MailFrom: bob.mcmahon@umbernetworks.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; loop; banned-address; emergency; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.10 Precedence: list Subject: [Bloat] Re: The hell has frozen: Latency mentioned at APNIC 62, during a keynote! List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Hi All, Just a reminder that bufferbloat isn't the only source of latency or jitter. Here's an animation showing some of the other places delay can accumulate over the pipeline w/Wi-Fi as a component. https://www.umbernetworks.com/mac_collapse_lights.php I'm still working out a few bugs in the animations, but the ideas are there. It's from the view of an AP radio or a Fi-Wi radio head, and ramps up the traffic from 50 clients. The animation pipeline includes: o) Send-side buffering o) Bytes in flight o) The 802.11 forwarding plane o) 802.11 arbitration o) DMA transfers o) Over-the-air (OTA) transmission o) OTA acknowledgment Bob PS. Iperf 2 is on the play store. https://iperf2.fi-wi.com/ Let me know if it helps or not. > We came up with a more accurate, but wordy declaration: > >> "The most important performance metric where >> systems fall short today is not bandwidth, or compute. It is latency." > > > To make a more punchy statement, s/scarce resource/bottleneck/ to > get... > >> "The bottleneck is not bandwidth, or compute. It is latency." > > Thoughts? > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list -- bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > To unsubscribe send an email to bloat-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net