From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80FF83CB37 for ; Tue, 9 Jan 2024 02:18:23 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1704784701; x=1705389501; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=NBYdqMXU3CUrjAciaa4PiyZLJckt6yoPDK1ATGtqGJM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References: To; b=LyCmpcil6zMuG/K6CCSCtK5S0Bzle3iTcUsAwe7K73qF3NN4xYXtYxLK9aTDgCXt 7yy0FLIEnygL5Ta6/2E22vznYukar1xeW8YKzlDgx34MJuaQA0enST1/nEEcJYsDr 4Ka48nMCyFIjuONsKSs9g5GBvBaesft5VuwK98W7NZp8TIEyL0bcB/WOI42txVQLo BXsDF2Obxu3ozci2mGYXuwooAlBvN/EcwyywkTDyd4a4EBsTojEW32yDpFm1266w3 8xXCE0Y91CdxBJ2e0tc3zYKKcR6fqO2pLuZPdeUQYhlLgkT2r3Q5bXJNyjMlWoQmS kKBDFAu/fOtdH3OLtQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mn2aN-1qwG4J3rvT-00k9ZI; Tue, 09 Jan 2024 08:18:20 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.4\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2024 08:18:20 +0100 Cc: Juliusz Chroboczek , Bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <523A469A-C87B-4EED-AD9F-D261723099F4@gmx.de> References: <871qareduw.wl-jch@irif.fr> <4065073E-D259-4403-B8AC-71059FC536DE@gmx.de> To: David Schinazi X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.4) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:xWrptAppo6aqZq/OSOC3YPKos2+GqyYXfpLGjQa0h8GWhN6exOW vsMSPqzymttCu+DCIh8go5IhLcV0oHeYdwjxErQMqlEvqWhnQOJWROGRVfLfVcU0xoOc1VQ JpdOEeqNFp8fRp0eUq4vnDeVAP566WhZnYZ/6WJ8GXZ9T6uGwVJugZQjCeO4sOYKfsmX3tg OHASIHqbFA3hjB7XCW3Dw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:1vmboM1sna8=;aDZskK3JLwdRbZa8gB5pISVqLIQ C/D/bR9xsxJKsTG6mRI+N9LI96VLzptJmZ7d2wH+lhAGzpopWHoWpaC2EHzwgB5tnU+9MBKqT uSNzT7FzYdSmGYx5lNsuXC/CcnhnwNhsh5lFwV6I7e4oLaBUuZU+sLPgLm8arHjMaw45+6vRW GuhEnBAQVP1vF26Jx0d+tbraikX8s0qRT7HPAiFR0qZkUxjNHj+thV7KBGBDji3pvUUEZYz/A N0lGTNpsp1ZvWSVyCvAPIZXI//oNS3eUtgGgwhQDnti6OklQjTl/pKfEDZAu5bSoT0lwYLSD5 rtne5RA82ne3fgn9K41IoMDSccDVlOBH4IN0M7Xfo6FPs3J7bMKfMpZvU0sLN/HmU49k2DS49 8Zne1IH1ivxRDs8qEylttU92yngXdCSpqqu7ee9+mVNvrC0LxWFwFErm9IMi/u6lwPMlEcSCn 9aAKOLWQ304VSaMNJUt/wUIlD/qOGiefYRsJ80UUuiiWpYcjafd+eZjiIsaZRD2SfO41WSITX cSnaoOsIelGqLFX3O+oYCS33XXAXOhxCkGf9I9VjDhwi8XTZpWXIaeI3Xj2UfZPvY9M0+5102 UGX5aeteUaIQXEltbl7DTjNK+dtrKGiygJiY/xNsx5y255RtucMpdFm1yItIjFIU+K0mgJrg5 v8nkl1RyUjXIuvDTKOoYjxqdo9Nh/Qx7/6DQMTjC8hqZUNlk8dY3GZfUoHnSBlrABdgEB9AC/ coQLVojXGmqCVZp59FmvUbbiv7N2J1gZBhe2olydL1n+7e7ZS8hreqRLzoPc6Lia/A8VPJVtI PsE8Z3Kj+Rfuh4kLGHHGhwB90gZ9R6OWLeotJUJvoSsOnQOoPNjZsIiHGqNZpFdNRFLzy4/jp aN66A9xGiNfDiyyO3miQkU37SKQpKnbkJYTfbX3CMrEPCWW1cTdqz7fRtg3lzxcMXc0mOuxBm cuG5FUiU51MOUUB0DBAAdbvt1M4= Subject: Re: [Bloat] goresponsiveness learned a few tricks... X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2024 07:18:23 -0000 Hi David, > On Jan 9, 2024, at 00:15, David Schinazi = wrote: >=20 > My understanding is that Apple chose to report RTT as an inverse = because people are used to "higher number means better". The target = audience for network speed tests is the average slightly-tech-savvy = consumer, and those aren't all familiar with what latency means. Also, = car enthusiasts like RPMs :-) Yes, I understand the rationale, I am just not buying it 100%. = As I said people are well accustomed to values were "less is more" = (prices, taxes, marathon times, ...) and I am not sure whether catering = to the lowest common denominator is all that superior to teaching folks = the relevant numbers... After all the trade-off is that now if people = want to decompose or aggregate RPM values they need to deal with = fractions... However for the responsiveness draft I fully accept that = ship has sailed and "bigger is better" it is ;) Regards Sebastian > David >=20 > On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 1:53=E2=80=AFPM Sebastian Moeller via Bloat = wrote: > Hi Julien, >=20 > On 8 January 2024 22:04:23 CET, Juliusz Chroboczek = wrote: > >> = (h++ps://github.com/network-quality/draft-ietf-ippm-responsiveness). > > > >There's quite a few good ideas in this draft, but the one that I find > >intriguing is reporting RTT values in RPM (units of 1/60 Hz) rather = than > >milliseconds. >=20 > That idea, reporting the reciprocal has been around for some time, I = think I first heard it from Jonathan Morton. But this is the first = implementation.... >=20 > Now personally I tend to think about 'latency' as sort of a budget, = and then accounting where this budget is spent is easier with durations = than periods. But I understand the attraction of 'bigger is better' = numbers as well. Though most people also know smaller is better number, = like product prices or taxes owed, but I digress. >=20 >=20 > > > >I wonder how well this works. I'll experiment with undergrads. >=20 > The goresponsiveness code is quite readable and might give a = convenient starting point for some quick and dirty exploration... >=20 > > > >-- Juliusz >=20 > --=20 > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat