From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from nm16.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm16.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.114.39]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A572021F38C for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 08:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [66.196.81.163] by nm16.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2014 15:36:31 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.158] by tm9.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2014 15:36:30 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp118.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2014 15:36:30 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s1024; t=1401377790; bh=ked/FicKHSS2EDTMhDC1Jn5cMKwxD30vHiYRucgxQZc=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:X-Enigmail-Version:Content-Type; b=z41Nf5+DwYUno8zWSytJoKCqVbK4Zzev4Cm0auts8y0D1LCWZFgo2G8rtxqNg6WybJht5IsOVG0jHQg1Sd72amrsUTh9vjp/k1U7FUiFdVBMyFpkSMFdrF0c35MFDqMbHj4WRpJUo2uUKwNpg2erEwswvup9UhnQ/XKn2Q4FMeQ= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 876150.73783.bm@smtp118.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: euBTnkwVM1neMEexJp.BoxUMv2W5TomX2idaAHQVhdLUUbU xbPG4ugSqSf2NwwoshbdZdEjaPt14tCYUE0Eqh5Bu5kunITEtdFHRI8lMlc5 4PX56Kq9vk28yDuHOBFz1tETkg5noamCGyu7TEcn7jBNteWzhw4Tg61GHDgy AKRv4WT0K5gseopIqP00BI40Q3MuQIPSru3nq8fVi0zCsW9oZPjErd6l5PIC XTfRt49fzCqUsBmjDKKTRHzCz63kr10mTSLfQQx3E9TLzfMmiyhOahKzC.0B dWSTcrtUc8Vs4.6F7_ixhPxrNSLZ8PZ_J_aWd2vYdejqRAvCwIk2ColQ5KQI BTMiXcTkaTngqa3leP7kuEMbqFyLWuDjk8BmcJJZxvIC8reM8OJVPD1ZjVNr SMhmBcBypL.7U523AmFn6W1C6D3ji8Gb8Ge3mHRg5YbvRa0K1PpHJxtplali 6Ru8dihZA1znHmD8lYQraxFvIyLopWcsxFnJQV.aAjdrLE85RSCvU5IWQ.tD IzGvS0n7WrIYZ1Gvmv.sb_poXDvmHM7R1SnVPgTq6g_8zb6F.XQgKaeXhlxI 6NlCmUoCGWiZhggNc3r5RAnCrJX4- X-Yahoo-SMTP: sltvjZWswBCRD.ElTuB1l9j6s9wRYPpuyTNWOE5oEg-- X-Rocket-Received: from [10.111.100.146] (davec-b@74.213.188.46 with plain [98.139.221.125]) by smtp118.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2014 15:36:30 +0000 UTC Message-ID: <538753FD.9090406@rogers.com> Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 11:36:29 -0400 From: David Collier-Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: bloat References: <53861CEB.8060003@rogers.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000308010807080409070509" Subject: Re: [Bloat] ipspace.net: "QUEUING MECHANISMS IN MODERN SWITCHES", > (Jonathan Morton) X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: davecb@spamcop.net List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 15:36:33 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000308010807080409070509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 05/29/2014 10:09 AM, Jonathan Morton wrote: > > On 28 May 2014 20:31, "David Collier-Brown" > wrote: > > A niggle: people working in queuing theory* make the simplifying > > assumption that queues don't drop. When describing the real world, they > > talk of "defections", the scenario where a human arrives at the tail of > > the queue and "defects", either to another queue or to the exit door of > > the store! > > I think my description of the black box is still valid: a "defection" > must imply a second output from the box, otherwise it will appear as > either a reordering (preserving the property) or a discard. > > - Jonathan Morton > Yes, I entirely agree: your black box is slightly larger than the usual queuing box... which make your box think "outside the box" (;-)) --dave -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain --------------000308010807080409070509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 05/29/2014 10:09 AM, Jonathan Morton wrote:

On 28 May 2014 20:31, "David Collier-Brown" <davec-b@rogers.com> wrote:
> A niggle: people working in queuing theory* make the simplifying
> assumption that queues don't drop. When describing the real world, they
> talk of "defections", the scenario where a human arrives at the tail of
> the queue and "defects", either to another queue or to the exit door of
> the store!

I think my description of the black box is still valid: a "defection" must imply a second output from the box, otherwise it will appear as either a reordering (preserving the property) or a discard.

- Jonathan Morton

Yes, I entirely agree: your black box is slightly larger than the usual queuing box... which make your box think  "outside the box" (;-))

--dave

-- 
David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
davecb@spamcop.net           |                      -- Mark Twain
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