From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mx2-priv.urz.unibas.ch (mx2-priv.urz.unibas.ch [131.152.226.165]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49CE721F4FD for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 02:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2-priv.urz.unibas.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4462C2202A2 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:59:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at unibas.ch Received: from smtp-ext.unibas.ch ([131.152.226.167]) by localhost (mx2-mgnt.urz.unibas.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 8NaUrrapbOkL for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:59:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.227.125.241] (unknown [132.227.125.241]) by smtp-ext.unibas.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 29D422202A0 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:59:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <54267C73.30100@unibas.ch> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:59:31 +0200 From: Manolis Sifalakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <54243E3E.6080806@hp.com> <542455BB.70608@hp.com> In-Reply-To: <542455BB.70608@hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] I feel an urge to update this X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 09:00:33 -0000 A couple of remarks to try and contribute to this discussion, one philosophical and one engineering. The philosophical first. There is a presentation taking place in a room and it is possibly at q&a phase. You have several ppl entering the room at several time points. What if every person entering the room, immediately throws aggressively questions without even having spent time to listen and understand the context of presentation and discussion. Imagine this happening again and again. Consider what are the chances that a meaningful communication and discussion will take place... or simply how would you like that as a person in the audience? The more technical next. Doubling and tripling IW for short lived sessions (each of which will attain --only-- exponential growth in its anyway short lifetime) means that a large number of high-freq transient components will be added to and removed from the signal that the AQM sees (and tries to adapt to). Is that something desired ? Will it improve or worsen the way an AQM adapts? Increasing IW is not only a matter of initial value, it also affects the starting growth rate (since the relation is not linear). Manos On 25/09/14 19:49, Rick Jones wrote: > On 09/25/2014 10:26 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014, Rick Jones wrote: >> >>> Well, there has been such a thing present in TCP from "The Beginning" >>> though not named as such. Such a client could always advertise a >>> smaller (initial) receive window... One which would allow only IW3 or >>> whatever value was appropriate. >> >> I'm sure there are ways to solve this, but my take from the "TCP people" >> was that there was not seen to be any need to do anything else than what >> is done today, ie all TCP connections are self contained and learns >> nothing from each other. > > Well, I cannot speak for "TCP people" but I would think that what a > given TCP connection decides to advertise as its receive window, and > whether that decision would need/must depend on what other TCP > connections have seen are separate, but related. > > The main point I wished to make was if one did indeed wish to have a > receiver behind a slow pipe wish to be able to keep a sender up on a > fast pipe from actually doing IW10, there was no need for any new signal > flowing from one end to the other, just setting the receive window > appropriately. The TCP stack on the slow-connection device could (and > perhaps should) be configured for things like (initial) receive windows > with that in mind. > > rick jones > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat