From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from nm18-vm1.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm18-vm1.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.80]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B57321F322 for ; Tue, 3 Mar 2015 11:46:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s2048; t=1425411965; bh=MuFGWZIqxtpzZbmd72zb48F94aFO4ieKsiYHcHaDI80=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=cn/D4z3y2YH1fd4WUzzfTzBepaWggeKV87MrsXjCi7P23wvrp1QzkK/SNM+0C3AlXvYgIhd8IlH8H3oLgup7u70orizDcw6ZeqsdV6AARMC3IsFGz308PemFEjfv/iyFwfo/cSfjBOERgNeOMPbcVj0gHIVCy5GzPFKa44tsdS3o1XOkS8jcj95ooJtWciFO5yl9xDNeeUYcZ8EzxmFOv3JtWghYe4Y/cMcia2rwIbkRAnLjKPrDSy890yyfYZ2JwqP02bHHaFNzn/zePidwG9s0TTulZi6JiHwalIvZU5Z9vM+XYgSCQZ+ZXvMMY/D6jRbzQjOhlG+PnkC+7qrnCg== Received: from [66.196.81.158] by nm18.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2015 19:46:05 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.241] by tm4.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2015 19:46:05 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp112.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Mar 2015 19:46:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 426943.34477.bm@smtp112.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 3NsrOoQVM1nTutC_yiADRyW3W_K5dcpwPiNUoN6w4kPg4fB sqGd2i80YOiIma0JDG7lgAkDOUuiJXgEJyOtJo4UwhD4hntmUHcV2gk.z1XZ nQVHsgyqXwwEhH7D73yOnN_f16zM2l2ctv3J2bdoLCAltp64TUEA.SP4L4_f gZI1.GfCnCTt01hoasSHHi0SuhiUXA4eMztlntziKAEzdCqpA70oTaR5dIqV 2qF3_4tm988ycBb.YtlJ7ddR8iObqwvMU94Dzb4pshLTdicV90OycnCANORu XHOPkeV2gDKPCMiLHILW3ZbhQktvnhoTSuWWRiYJWXAxEqJR4MWMI6N1eKy6 z9ZA0I_5ygQpER_FH8dsRLWyRA_NUTMG7WG.DwAGsvgITOWcrMboZGP2XOw2 MIhD.TE50g9zHP3QDG.FRQ3HPIEtovfS8n8HJIF8f36uIORC_M5mvY.tWpvb cqfwjy.t3ywx18M34yb6Y1Ws2QVxGYlCMihVGacG_Ksv5l2v2L8ebIuBTVc2 IUr8YC.l6jevD2n5f96Dskk3qlxO7WQnWQthRBQwdBr59 X-Yahoo-SMTP: sltvjZWswBCRD.ElTuB1l9j6s9wRYPpuyTNWOE5oEg-- Message-ID: <54F60F7B.4040405@rogers.com> Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 14:46:03 -0500 From: David Collier-Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050903060109080102000509" Subject: [Bloat] Motivating commercial entities? tell the sales manager (was: ping loss "considered harmful") X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: davecb@spamcop.net List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:46:35 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050903060109080102000509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bill Ver Steeg (versteb) There are several efforts underway within this particular big vendor to > address bloat. Are these efforts crash programs to get code out the door as > fast as humanly possible? No. There are efforts underway, though. These > things take time?? To be frank, the best way to drive feature > development/deployment/adoption in most big companies is to have customers > ask for them. Dave Taht replied > Creating understanding and demand has been my nearly f/t project for > several years now. I hope it is finally starting to work! > > However, along the way - in trying to work with everybody in all parts of > the industry, and to "get along" - I found myself in a deep moral and > mental hole where I realized I was no longer being true to myself or being > effective in what I had really set out to do by attempting to create this > open, shared project, where I had hoped we all would be working together > for a common goal. Just a rather specific pointer: it's neither the technical staff nor the support team that has the power to report and escalate a bug. /It's the sales team/. If you can elevator-pitch the head of sales for Honeywell* with something that will avoid costing him sales, you'll get an informed and motivated response from the business. If you talk to anyone else, they'll need permission from their director to even report a bug, and an explicit blessing from a VP to escalate it. The same is true of most large companies, even if they're not very old. If they're market-driven, it the sales and marketing folks who report what the market wants. Techies and CSRs will only be asked /after/ the "market" speaks. --dave [* Honeywell no longer makes computers, so I can use them as a bad example (;-)] -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain --------------050903060109080102000509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Bill Ver Steeg (versteb) <versteb@cisco.com wrote:
There are several efforts underway within this particular big vendor to
address bloat. Are these efforts crash programs to get code out the door as
fast as humanly possible? No. There are efforts underway, though. These
things take time?? To be frank, the best way to drive feature
development/deployment/adoption in most big companies is to have customers
ask for them.

Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> replied
Creating understanding and demand has been my nearly f/t project for
several years now. I hope it is finally starting to work!

However, along the way - in trying to work with everybody in all parts of
the industry, and to "get along" - I found myself in a deep moral and
mental hole where I realized I was no longer being true to myself or being
effective in what I had really set out to do by attempting to create this
open, shared project, where I had hoped we all would be working together
for a common goal.

Just a rather specific pointer: it's neither the technical staff nor the support team that has the power to report and escalate a bug. It's the sales team.  If you can elevator-pitch the head of sales for Honeywell* with something that will avoid costing him sales, you'll get an informed and motivated response from the business.

If you talk to anyone else, they'll need permission from their director to even report a bug, and an explicit blessing from a VP to escalate it.

The same is true of most large companies, even if they're not very old.  If they're market-driven, it the sales and marketing folks who report what the market wants.  Techies and CSRs will only be asked after the "market" speaks.

--dave
[* Honeywell no longer makes computers, so I can use them as a bad example (;-)]
-- 
David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
davecb@spamcop.net           |                      -- Mark Twain
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