From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0077.outbound.protection.outlook.com [157.56.112.77]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "MSIT Machine Auth CA 2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3508F21F5A5 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2015 06:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from AM2PR07MB0931.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (25.162.37.139) by AM2PR07MB0980.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (25.162.37.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.172.22; Sat, 6 Jun 2015 13:38:57 +0000 Authentication-Results: lists.bufferbloat.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:183f:da2b::9b1c:6a15] (2001:470:183f:da2b::9b1c:6a15) by AM2PR07MB0931.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (25.162.37.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.172.22; Sat, 6 Jun 2015 13:38:56 +0000 Message-ID: <5572F7E0.3060602@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2015 14:38:40 +0100 From: Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090500000306060405010402" X-Originating-IP: [2001:470:183f:da2b::9b1c:6a15] X-ClientProxiedBy: DM2PR10CA0030.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (25.160.213.40) To AM2PR07MB0931.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (25.162.37.139) X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM2PR07MB0931; UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM2PR07MB0980; X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006)(520003)(3002001); SRVR:AM2PR07MB0931; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM2PR07MB0931; X-Forefront-PRVS: 05991796DF X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(512874002)(83506001)(4001350100001)(62966003)(189998001)(84326002)(87976001)(5001960100002)(450100001)(107886002)(110136002)(122386002)(40100003)(5890100001)(77156002)(81156007)(229853001)(92566002)(86362001)(65816999)(64126003)(87266999)(54356999)(50986999)(80316001)(33656002)(46102003)(74482002)(42186005)(2351001)(568964001)(106356001)(65806001)(65956001)(59896002)(36756003)(169013001)(3826002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM2PR07MB0931; H:[IPv6:2001:470:183f:da2b::9b1c:6a15]; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:nov; PTR:InfoNoRecords; LANG:en; X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2015 13:38:56.0034 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM2PR07MB0931 X-OriginatorOrg: darbyshire-bryant.me.uk Subject: [Bloat] ADSL, ATM drivers, bloat, education & confusion X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2015 13:39:31 -0000 --------------ms090500000306060405010402 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Chaps, Guess who :-) Following on from my probably rash assertion that BT=20 here in the UK probably aren't as bad at bufferbloat from them to end=20 user due to rate limiting as I think, it has reminded me of my parents'=20 situation and efforts to help them. Scenario is: ADSL very long line (hopefully they've got the copper=20 repaired now) so on a good day the ADSL sync is something like 2Mbit=20 down, 512kbit up. I bought them a Netgear DGN3500 which is now running=20 OpenWrt CC (+cake) This is not my preferred solution in hardware terms=20 but it has a supported built-in ADSL modem so is a one box solution. The problem I have is setting outbound rate limiting. I was hoping that = 'cake' without the 'bandwidth' parameter would work on the=20 'backpressure' from the ATM(?) driver, sadly this wasn't the case and so = setting a bandwidth limit (I'm not in a position to test the new=20 keywords for ATM encapsulation etc yet) was the only way forward. =20 Unfortunately the ADSL link isn't rock solid stable so the negotiated=20 rates for in & out flap around a bit. So a few questions: 1) ATM interface 'backpressure' - is this Byte Queue Limits? (ifxmips_atm= ) 2) Do byte queue limits apply to outbound only? 3) Horrid thought - this probably isn't just the ATM driver as IP is=20 provisioned over PPP. PPP driver needs BQL too? So another approach is to query the ATM interface on every IF up (which=20 should get reflected into the the PPP interface up) for its current=20 negotiated sync rates and use those as input into the SQM scripts. There's a question here that's niggling me at the back of my mind: How=20 is this supposed to work with a two box modem and router solution? I=20 guess the modem should ideally be running some sort of outbound AQM and=20 dropping packets on its ethernet interface that just won't fit/queue too = long. Sorry, too many questions and I've not enough programming experience let = alone linux kernel experience to be able to help. I'll try if someone=20 can point me in a direction. Kevin --------------ms090500000306060405010402 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIINnDCC BjQwggQcoAMCAQICAR4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoT DVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNp Z25pbmcxKTAnBgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA3 MTAyNDIxMDE1NVoXDTE3MTAyNDIxMDE1NVowgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1T dGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWdu aW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENs aWVudCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAMcJg8zOLdgasSmkLhOr lr6KMoOMpohBllVHrdRvEg/q6r8jR+EK75xCGhR8ToREoqe7zM9/UnC6TS2y9UKTpT1v7RSM zR0t6ndl0TWBuUr/UXBhPk+Kmy7bI4yW4urC+y7P3/1/X7U8ocb8VpH/Clt+4iq7nirMcNh6 qJR+xjOhV+VHzQMALuGYn5KZmc1NbJQYclsGkDxDz2UbFqE2+6vIZoL+jb9x4Pa5gNf1TwSD kOkikZB1xtB4ZqtXThaABSONdfmv/Z1pua3FYxnCFmdr/+N2JLKutIxMYqQOJebr/f/h5t95 m4JgrM3Y/w7YX9d7YAL9jvN4SydHsU6n65cCAwEAAaOCAa0wggGpMA8GA1UdEwEB/wQFMAMB Af8wDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgEGMB0GA1UdDgQWBBRTcu2SnODaywFcfH6WNU7y1LhRgjAfBgNV HSMEGDAWgBROC+8apEBbpRdphzDKNGhD0EGu8jBmBggrBgEFBQcBAQRaMFgwJwYIKwYBBQUH MAGGG2h0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9jYTAtBggrBgEFBQcwAoYhaHR0cDovL3d3 dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vc2ZzY2EuY3J0MFsGA1UdHwRUMFIwJ6AloCOGIWh0dHA6Ly93d3cu c3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nmc2NhLmNybDAnoCWgI4YhaHR0cDovL2NybC5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20v c2ZzY2EuY3JsMIGABgNVHSAEeTB3MHUGCysGAQQBgbU3AQIBMGYwLgYIKwYBBQUHAgEWImh0 dHA6Ly93d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3BvbGljeS5wZGYwNAYIKwYBBQUHAgEWKGh0dHA6Ly93 d3cuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2ludGVybWVkaWF0ZS5wZGYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAAqD CH14qywGXLhjjF6uHLkjd02hcdh9hrw+VUsv+q1eeQWB21jWj3kJ96AUlPCoEGZ/ynJNScWy 6QMVQjbbMXltUfO4n4bGGdKo3awPWp61tjAFgraLJgDk+DsSvUD6EowjMTNx25GQgyYJ5RPI zKKR9tQW8gGK+2+RHxkUCTbYFnL6kl8Ch507rUdPPipJ9CgJFws3kDS3gOS5WFMxcjO5DwKf KSETEPrHh7p5shuuNktvsv6hxHTLhiMKX893gxdT3XLS9OKmCv87vkINQcNEcIIoFWbP9HOR z9v3vQwR4e3ksLc2JZOAFK+ssS5XMEoznzpihEP0PLc4dCBYjbvSD7kxgDwZ+Aj8Q9PkbvE9 sIPP7ON0fz095HdThKjiVJe6vofq+n6b1NBc8XdrQvBmunwxD5nvtTW4vtN6VY7mUCmxsCie uoBJ9OlqmsVWQvifIYf40dJPZkk9YgGTzWLpXDSfLSplbY2LL9C9U0ptvjcDjefLTvqSFc7t w1sEhF0n/qpA2r0GpvkLRDmcSwVyPvmjFBGqUp/pNy8ZuPGQmHwFi2/14+xeSUDG2bwnsYJQ G2EdJCB6luQ57GEnTA/yKZSTKI8dDQa8Sd3zfXb19mOgSF0bBdXbuKhEpuP9wirslFe6fQ1t 5j5R0xi72MZ8ikMu1RQZKCyDbMwazlHiMIIHYDCCBkigAwIBAgIDCm0/MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB BQUAMIGMMQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMi U2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20g Q2xhc3MgMSBQcmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0EwHhcNMTQwNzAzMTE1NjM5 WhcNMTUwNzA0MTc0MjQ1WjBxMRkwFwYDVQQNExA2dVNGb1pMU1d2dGgyd2tNMSYwJAYDVQQD DB1rZXZpbkBkYXJieXNoaXJlLWJyeWFudC5tZS51azEsMCoGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYda2V2aW5A ZGFyYnlzaGlyZS1icnlhbnQubWUudWswggIiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4ICDwAwggIKAoIC AQDqCZMbkat9lukbtY+VQ4HBVkcHtcUU1sWZlg7foJ6XEQXCb3ArlyY7V+AldkNY6qRlrlVt YZmSFtDsors5e3Z1VWlEYBZEbnR57t5jmfGYmaaDzc8YsWr5gsUTa+MV/MNHpuAlf9GwgQCQ e7SC7kEzkQZApfB8/zG/a5JxgVXD9c3vK40p3OW27ZqVN9rie5SoLi1KEfQbA//VyPPeDpus oDwYGq6AA82lLFvgBxi1JPlS7M9zToUQCXpvDexQPiok1iqhwYBwX3qmSInlVWnudgaJ25iL m8/9bG5nCIo+dOEZP/bOCEsMzV8n9RaCNu8ilpjMXsHbkgrlvng81CTUFlYWhdMg58CM7N9y gSBjCKuHmJwQbIdsCmuKEOFVLZR8OZzoue6e/HAQlunWEfrr/H4+UYp8yTNLybqfcyZ3k7Sg i207jicY5dVKKFFY8eSB8Ps2svxj6BgrNPZMGzW36zRwaK1MpOZxHItCcuyXo+WkI3/61BZ5 mg34ejrgalQ04887n+4u3XPKnM/IwXfivlOD+n8bOOAGR8iZVlLTVmvypMdX3+wL/yB/w8g1 Ojj9Bk5/ksZb9Eh+3q1cVOOuXa/hcCLLqetNFzlxHjbVXzBKwO9pOs50DVxtv070KalD3iqz 8hCwnDt7odkGHwXyZAErmUSjc6tqVMivid/1swIDAQABo4IC4zCCAt8wCQYDVR0TBAIwADAL BgNVHQ8EBAMCBLAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMB0GA1UdDgQWBBSg QyTrQHiayWJq77xyyu7kpPmJ2jAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBRTcu2SnODaywFcfH6WNU7y1LhRgjAo BgNVHREEITAfgR1rZXZpbkBkYXJieXNoaXJlLWJyeWFudC5tZS51azCCAUwGA1UdIASCAUMw ggE/MIIBOwYLKwYBBAGBtTcBAgMwggEqMC4GCCsGAQUFBwIBFiJodHRwOi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0 c3NsLmNvbS9wb2xpY3kucGRmMIH3BggrBgEFBQcCAjCB6jAnFiBTdGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZp Y2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTADAgEBGoG+VGhpcyBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSB3YXMgaXNzdWVkIGFj Y29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgQ2xhc3MgMSBWYWxpZGF0aW9uIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBvZiB0aGUg U3RhcnRDb20gQ0EgcG9saWN5LCByZWxpYW5jZSBvbmx5IGZvciB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcHVy cG9zZSBpbiBjb21wbGlhbmNlIG9mIHRoZSByZWx5aW5nIHBhcnR5IG9ibGlnYXRpb25zLjA2 BgNVHR8ELzAtMCugKaAnhiVodHRwOi8vY3JsLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9jcnR1MS1jcmwuY3Js MIGOBggrBgEFBQcBAQSBgTB/MDkGCCsGAQUFBzABhi1odHRwOi8vb2NzcC5zdGFydHNzbC5j b20vc3ViL2NsYXNzMS9jbGllbnQvY2EwQgYIKwYBBQUHMAKGNmh0dHA6Ly9haWEuc3RhcnRz c2wuY29tL2NlcnRzL3N1Yi5jbGFzczEuY2xpZW50LmNhLmNydDAjBgNVHRIEHDAahhhodHRw Oi8vd3d3LnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAChYSPOI6HHjtB2zQSGb 7vqo2f/QAum648uoNCFXf/ZmpU42ca6hq/JqsugqbnCY72hNTpCh3JZwTTaBWBvj1vzjjMra pLixIvceaAqMj6vd+L43APuMMmTH9tUUNS1ksXdA2r6STVIbr4p2sbVV3WktLGFnNAy5uXbr mLHay5w6jcmSfTAh1aA49sSvp+8CB6q6uDef2j9X8OE9Ajr5l0mcnGdVOkLZU6Zq20G8jb3p sdqoO9MU5UbKfZCN4/ibr+/0Pj3VZIE3jCEW2DwguN6DIDAYVc6b7RFGf3cWadJrSa887Sc/ 9wzXymTKAyBvfgRQeWcZ+5w4RlOI/TmpNfwxggTdMIIE2QIBATCBlDCBjDELMAkGA1UEBhMC SUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENl cnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxODA2BgNVBAMTL1N0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNzIDEgUHJpbWFyeSBJ bnRlcm1lZGlhdGUgQ2xpZW50IENBAgMKbT8wCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAh0wGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkD MQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTUwNjA2MTMzODQwWjAjBgkqhkiG9w0B CQQxFgQUHDRlZ3v/N8BS4sYJW+lpF55vALcwbAYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMV8wXTALBglghkgBZQME ASowCwYJYIZIAWUDBAECMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMHMA4GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgIAgDANBggqhkiG9w0D AgIBQDAHBgUrDgMCBzANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBKDCBpQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGXMIGUMIGMMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UECxMiU2VjdXJlIERp Z2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBQ cmltYXJ5IEludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBDbGllbnQgQ0ECAwptPzCBpwYLKoZIhvcNAQkQAgsxgZeg gZQwgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJT ZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBD bGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQQIDCm0/MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB AQUABIICAM70WAe6py5/GzxPy8nsJKWVmu246QsgIxWNpx2uNJPdh9bAIRLS6XGdYjypdU/3 DTxK3L44TiWsNy258mcEobAw0NytvMoAGvX/bhJjXg07nR1g7OD09KK1GrUFFigU9DyEL93x 9JsgZQLuPlVZ+PfWXCThXuO7xH0qf4QNSZXxZVTbHDok2rh6e2w+Pb+TUfppWscalXwWyG2H RcTch+5EWXN9TA1xf1ehb331qjDO3A62yK5a4WKcmyxrNkIAVx8euDFCCegOON8SpI/HI4pZ MGh30BnACeb2cb2RLnE7KY8Fy8eIzB++9xI3DWXr/sbXIsX17AuonRbTWWAjfKVEotc0trWa 2TNN3pNzblOfjYSEsC2K7dZjyECQO6qJK78JJCi4UjENHzrxh+OWIuQR9I9hHnUMFjwI0LJY c54GWqmDrlE8Rjlw2m1YQeqdED48tu0YrI8RToBvatapUBzm9AZ0cmtcOLwNM7tqVp7vkcnE 0plGu23noD7qYF/6klCk4IK5CoCG5IQuFhfyDMcJKDMyt/P/nhoQsHuTr7giJRLyl03zv3eM v6f7w5uAt8veUVZLYMQMcTztnIo3ShpkWHQQanKA7HRsoqMNGYQFTuvW5kYKwETLRJ93GkZt aEuXdAr+HEg/ZKQR8ZLOLFqnfnYruSz3OVAF29ViX/7IAAAAAAAA --------------ms090500000306060405010402--