From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from emea01-db3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db3on0093.outbound.protection.outlook.com [157.55.234.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "MSIT Machine Auth CA 2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15D8021F611 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2015 08:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Authentication-Results: lists.bufferbloat.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:183f:da2b::9b1c:6a15] (2001:470:183f:da2b::9b1c:6a15) by VI1PR07MB0941.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (25.161.110.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.184.17; Sat, 6 Jun 2015 15:46:33 +0000 Message-ID: <557315CC.1060405@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2015 16:46:20 +0100 From: Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sebastian Moeller References: <5572F7E0.3060602@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <0A0D06AB-CC83-4D99-80C6-8E7822C8707C@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <0A0D06AB-CC83-4D99-80C6-8E7822C8707C@gmx.de> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090903050100060208090906" X-Originating-IP: [2001:470:183f:da2b::9b1c:6a15] X-ClientProxiedBy: SN1PR07CA0015.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (25.162.170.153) To VI1PR07MB0941.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (25.161.110.146) X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:VI1PR07MB0941; X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(520003)(5005006)(3002001); SRVR:VI1PR07MB0941; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:VI1PR07MB0941; X-Forefront-PRVS: 05991796DF X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(479174004)(51704005)(11905935001)(40100003)(80316001)(83506001)(122386002)(2950100001)(65806001)(65956001)(92566002)(86362001)(50986999)(87266999)(15975445007)(568964001)(33656002)(65816999)(512944002)(19580395003)(46102003)(59896002)(76176999)(36756003)(189998001)(62966003)(54356999)(77156002)(5001960100002)(4001350100001)(42186005)(84326002)(110136002)(87976001)(74482002)(5890100001)(7059030)(169013001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB0941; H:[IPv6:2001:470:183f:da2b::9b1c:6a15]; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; X-OriginatorOrg: darbyshire-bryant.me.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2015 15:46:33.7568 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB0941 Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] ADSL, ATM drivers, bloat, education & confusion X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2015 15:47:06 -0000 --------------ms090903050100060208090906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 06/06/15 15:29, Sebastian Moeller wrote: > 1) ATM interface 'backpressure' - is this Byte Queue Limits? (ifxmips_a= tm) > Is there actual backpreassure from your ATM diver at all? As rar as I = know france=92s free had their boxes ATM driver modified to keep bufferin= g low, and I believe David Woodhouse dd some work on another driver/the g= eneric ATM layer, but I am not sure that any ATM driver actually defaults= to sane buffering and sane back pressure. That was my sort of point. On 'planet Kevin' (don't go there) the ATM=20 driver would *know* the link is busy, or how many bytes it still had to=20 shove over it and could offer some clue back up the stack to not bloat. = I thought that's what BQL was supposed to do. Or another way of=20 viewing: If ethernet interfaces ideally implement BQL why shouldn't ATM?= > > > How this is supposed to work? In an ideal work the CPE and the DSLAM w= ould not over-buffer and www would not have to dedicate grey matter to wo= rk around their sort-commings ;) But as far as I can tell DSL sync rates = for many lines are stable over weeks to months, so setting the shaper rar= ely is sufficient. Like when you notice that latency under load got worse= =85 Well again on 'planet Kevin' the CPE is OpenWrt. Apparenly it's under=20 my control but I'm fighting my own lack of abilities, trying to sprint a = marathon before I can even crawl. Looking at kernel sources when I can=20 barely get 'hello world' to compile & run is asking for trouble :-) =20 About a day ago I didn't know what an SKB was.=20 https://www.coverfire.com/articles/queueing-in-the-linux-network-stack/=20 has been a revelation. > > Best Regards > Sebastian > --------------ms090903050100060208090906 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIINnDCC BjQwggQcoAMCAQICAR4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoT DVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNp Z25pbmcxKTAnBgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA3 MTAyNDIxMDE1NVoXDTE3MTAyNDIxMDE1NVowgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1T dGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWdu 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