[Bloat] Measuring 5G Bloat (Was 5G going south)

[Bloat] Measuring 5G Bloat (Was 5G going south)

[Livingood, Jason]

FWIW - I'm working with a few measurement networks and researchers that are very soon deploying measurement probes - in the US - on 5G fixed wireless access connections and LEO (Starlink). These probes range on the low end from RIPE Atlas to higher end RPi-based probes. If you are interested in hosting one of these probes email me OFF-LIST:
- Your name 
- Your shipping address
- Your ISP name [FWA or LEO]

Some of these researchers are ready to ship probes in a couple of weeks and I'll have a bunch of RIPE Atlas probes ready to ship in about a month.

Thanks!
Jason

On 10/28/22, 17:10, "Bloat on behalf of jf--- via Bloat" <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

    We’ve observed growing variability on some TMHI setups from our fleet, and it seems there is a correlation to usage growth on a single tower. Seems neighbors talk to hear other after all ;-)

    And yes, horrible bufferbloat on these variable capacity links.

    > The author switched to verizon, but what guarantees of continued
    > reliability does one have?

    It seems none ATM, as it really depends on user density vs tower capacity. Woe to those that share a tower with a busy highway, ‘rush hour’ likely means low capacity and even higher latencies.

    Cheers,

    Jonathan Foulkes


    > On Oct 27, 2022, at 11:37 PM, Dave Taht via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
    > 
    > This had some details as to the things that could go wrong from an
    > initial happy install of t-mobile, to something terrible.
    > 
    > The author switched to verizon, but what guarantees of continued
    > reliability does one have?
    > 
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.networkprofile.org/redundant-wan-ditching-t-mobile-5g-for-verizon-5g/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7-U5YFaQA$  
    > 
    > (both services had horrible bufferbloat)
    > 
    > 
    > -- 
    > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K79bh-A5Hw$  
    > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
    > _______________________________________________
    > Bloat mailing list
    > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7_OsL72IQ$  

    _______________________________________________
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    Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7_OsL72IQ$  

Re: [Bloat] Measuring 5G Bloat (Was 5G going south)

[Dave Taht]

Jason: OK to add a few bleeding edge non-5g fixed wireless networks to the mix?

On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 7:21 AM Livingood, Jason
<Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> wrote:
>
> FWIW - I'm working with a few measurement networks and researchers that are very soon deploying measurement probes - in the US - on 5G fixed wireless access connections and LEO (Starlink). These probes range on the low end from RIPE Atlas to higher end RPi-based probes. If you are interested in hosting one of these probes email me OFF-LIST:
> - Your name
> - Your shipping address
> - Your ISP name [FWA or LEO]
>
> Some of these researchers are ready to ship probes in a couple of weeks and I'll have a bunch of RIPE Atlas probes ready to ship in about a month.
>
> Thanks!
> Jason
>
> On 10/28/22, 17:10, "Bloat on behalf of jf--- via Bloat" <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>     We’ve observed growing variability on some TMHI setups from our fleet, and it seems there is a correlation to usage growth on a single tower. Seems neighbors talk to hear other after all ;-)
>
>     And yes, horrible bufferbloat on these variable capacity links.
>
>     > The author switched to verizon, but what guarantees of continued
>     > reliability does one have?
>
>     It seems none ATM, as it really depends on user density vs tower capacity. Woe to those that share a tower with a busy highway, ‘rush hour’ likely means low capacity and even higher latencies.
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Jonathan Foulkes
>
>
>     > On Oct 27, 2022, at 11:37 PM, Dave Taht via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>     >
>     > This had some details as to the things that could go wrong from an
>     > initial happy install of t-mobile, to something terrible.
>     >
>     > The author switched to verizon, but what guarantees of continued
>     > reliability does one have?
>     >
>     > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.networkprofile.org/redundant-wan-ditching-t-mobile-5g-for-verizon-5g/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7-U5YFaQA$
>     >
>     > (both services had horrible bufferbloat)
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
>     > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K79bh-A5Hw$
>     > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Bloat mailing list
>     > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>     > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7_OsL72IQ$
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Bloat mailing list
>     Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>     https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7_OsL72IQ$
>


-- 
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

Re: [Bloat] Measuring 5G Bloat (Was 5G going south)

[Sebastian Moeller]

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Great news and generous offer!

Quick note: for OpenWrt there seems to exist an installable package in the main repository for a software ATLAS node. I operate one on my turris omnia since a few years, always convenient to have ATLAS credits for measurements....

Regards
         Sebastian

On 31 October 2022 15:21:48 CET, "Livingood, Jason via Bloat" <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>FWIW - I'm working with a few measurement networks and researchers that are very soon deploying measurement probes - in the US - on 5G fixed wireless access connections and LEO (Starlink). These probes range on the low end from RIPE Atlas to higher end RPi-based probes. If you are interested in hosting one of these probes email me OFF-LIST:
>- Your name 
>- Your shipping address
>- Your ISP name [FWA or LEO]
>
>Some of these researchers are ready to ship probes in a couple of weeks and I'll have a bunch of RIPE Atlas probes ready to ship in about a month.
>
>Thanks!
>Jason
>
>On 10/28/22, 17:10, "Bloat on behalf of jf--- via Bloat" <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>    We’ve observed growing variability on some TMHI setups from our fleet, and it seems there is a correlation to usage growth on a single tower. Seems neighbors talk to hear other after all ;-)
>
>    And yes, horrible bufferbloat on these variable capacity links.
>
>    > The author switched to verizon, but what guarantees of continued
>    > reliability does one have?
>
>    It seems none ATM, as it really depends on user density vs tower capacity. Woe to those that share a tower with a busy highway, ‘rush hour’ likely means low capacity and even higher latencies.
>
>    Cheers,
>
>    Jonathan Foulkes
>
>
>    > On Oct 27, 2022, at 11:37 PM, Dave Taht via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>    > 
>    > This had some details as to the things that could go wrong from an
>    > initial happy install of t-mobile, to something terrible.
>    > 
>    > The author switched to verizon, but what guarantees of continued
>    > reliability does one have?
>    > 
>    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.networkprofile.org/redundant-wan-ditching-t-mobile-5g-for-verizon-5g/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7-U5YFaQA$  
>    > 
>    > (both services had horrible bufferbloat)
>    > 
>    > 
>    > -- 
>    > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
>    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K79bh-A5Hw$  
>    > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>    > _______________________________________________
>    > Bloat mailing list
>    > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>    > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7_OsL72IQ$  
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    Bloat mailing list
>    Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7_OsL72IQ$  
>
>_______________________________________________
>Bloat mailing list
>Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5017 bytes --]

Re: [Bloat] [EXTERNAL] Re: Measuring 5G Bloat (Was 5G going south)

[Livingood, Jason]

Maybe eventually - but let’s walk before we run and start with 2 so we have a sufficient sample size. 

On 10/31/22, 10:25, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

    Jason: OK to add a few bleeding edge non-5g fixed wireless networks to the mix?

    On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 7:21 AM Livingood, Jason
    <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> wrote:
    >
    > FWIW - I'm working with a few measurement networks and researchers that are very soon deploying measurement probes - in the US - on 5G fixed wireless access connections and LEO (Starlink). These probes range on the low end from RIPE Atlas to higher end RPi-based probes. If you are interested in hosting one of these probes email me OFF-LIST:
    > - Your name
    > - Your shipping address
    > - Your ISP name [FWA or LEO]
    >
    > Some of these researchers are ready to ship probes in a couple of weeks and I'll have a bunch of RIPE Atlas probes ready to ship in about a month.
    >
    > Thanks!
    > Jason
    >
    > On 10/28/22, 17:10, "Bloat on behalf of jf--- via Bloat" <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
    >
    >     We’ve observed growing variability on some TMHI setups from our fleet, and it seems there is a correlation to usage growth on a single tower. Seems neighbors talk to hear other after all ;-)
    >
    >     And yes, horrible bufferbloat on these variable capacity links.
    >
    >     > The author switched to verizon, but what guarantees of continued
    >     > reliability does one have?
    >
    >     It seems none ATM, as it really depends on user density vs tower capacity. Woe to those that share a tower with a busy highway, ‘rush hour’ likely means low capacity and even higher latencies.
    >
    >     Cheers,
    >
    >     Jonathan Foulkes
    >
    >
    >     > On Oct 27, 2022, at 11:37 PM, Dave Taht via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
    >     >
    >     > This had some details as to the things that could go wrong from an
    >     > initial happy install of t-mobile, to something terrible.
    >     >
    >     > The author switched to verizon, but what guarantees of continued
    >     > reliability does one have?
    >     >
    >     > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.networkprofile.org/redundant-wan-ditching-t-mobile-5g-for-verizon-5g/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7-U5YFaQA$
    >     >
    >     > (both services had horrible bufferbloat)
    >     >
    >     >
    >     > --
    >     > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
    >     > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K79bh-A5Hw$
    >     > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
    >     > _______________________________________________
    >     > Bloat mailing list
    >     > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
    >     > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7_OsL72IQ$
    >
    >     _______________________________________________
    >     Bloat mailing list
    >     Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
    >     https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!DZPmyvCVso3V5VJsCmkvtzgtr5uBLoBSFpjGmKungaWqn5HKuLeCMgmCPiPY0rYPhiQN3Dl6jLyoUia5Gx94K7_OsL72IQ$
    >


    -- 
    This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
    https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!Cs0pLigD36lDOOcJbbuTiHglNobYkmdKzN5PseCl9k0hPIDWEeuhgLuVUmhRs_q_cPvT1sPy_zTlwn2zLLLOCD5p$  
    Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC