From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm0-x241.google.com (mail-wm0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB0473B2A0 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 04:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x241.google.com with SMTP id 187so2572654wmz.1 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 01:04:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:subject:to:references:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BrTYQWhL99K1XAGWEtvZGzDWhLsK7Pulm9flPlY5WKM=; b=LoZ9Tq3Z0Bopvp36lBHoSEM4rYMtV7ipJRvEbA7byrDry0jw5P5+0Jqden/l3f0TTl PVHUHVfrofoNOc2OuCwQStkbGnY8ll5LS+G8sUJpzjh8psBQsfHRlO9Ky2oYMb5h4X3T +vIFR3kGBVl+ZFt6jsDqLkdbRg7kSGtf+bcmmcyv1GS5P3S+T7t0UaufVVD/0Wfv8kXP uu6GntwGf6ZS9zZlzz9R1kiPLztObOynORBXM2z7bweVA//ING+qTd8Se9m4jp+43nuQ aCwggFhPrL89jt7hnTGgGhiRjL+tF8cYyDE2B/K708MRUYomriY3rrAH1Sl2aqulrkIl 7pww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BrTYQWhL99K1XAGWEtvZGzDWhLsK7Pulm9flPlY5WKM=; b=JBgEQlJUNsXKzs5vtl1uMDpogSKmcSvxBAfrn6zzrKbu3yvCTuX2w0xGS5+dj5biHW nHX6r/8DkhloyZSm6l5jQCQHv4icGuc38AmZZQJ1PktHjHXkMT68FiTLJmCkS9KK3ZFD M9J1TSFQX+wowL1K2eC4J2oWejCBTwoAciRhJVItLl0vQ2EwiB61iLlYmZqeXucjocxb GiRNMs7zlZg49iTLpFhzixjZMRvTFAFPmcNS3Df0ibC0pLvtmvUkOpe5XijMO3TTM/md N82eNiY+u3qh5ilkBK6MljgE2zIGczjYVUlG5nkZgUQYIH8S3mkV6IWnIDg6/+ADpPFA a6AQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJy5HSTj2B163r+A/F1hEVDkOQ/p8jLPFHsVrACgZsVHT8xojxmhYkbdakDo5b++A== X-Received: by 10.194.177.230 with SMTP id ct6mr5658448wjc.170.1466237046851; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 01:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zotac.xperim.be (210.15-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be. [81.244.15.210]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q71sm2491038wme.17.2016.06.18.01.04.05 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Jun 2016 01:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.38] (zotac.xperim.be [192.168.1.38]) by zotac.xperim.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B69E4491D62 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 10:04:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan Ceuleers To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net References: Message-ID: <57650074.90106@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 10:04:04 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] ultrafast broadband conference june 27-30 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 08:04:08 -0000 On 13/06/16 18:05, Dave Taht wrote: > Is anyone going to this? I sure hope the g.fast technologies have > their uplink bloat fixed, at least. Dave, (Been trying to send this for the past few days unsuccessfully; perhaps the DNS gremlins caused it to bounce. Now sending via gmail). As I'm sure everyone here knows DSL uses interleaving in order to achieve coding gain in the face of impulse noise. DSL has to operate in environments that are rich in such noise so although it is possible to turn interleaving off pretty much every operator has it on, if for no other reason than to avoid IPTV artefacts. This does not meet at least my understanding of the definition of bufferbloat, in that interleaving introduces a static amount of latency (i.e. latency that does not vary with load). But it's perhaps also not what you were talking about because you mentioned the uplink. Not sure what you meant. Still, other than the use of ATM and coding I'm not aware of buffering in DSL. Certainly no dynamic buffers that absorb traffic under load. Could you enlighten me? I know that you're a busy man; a few keywords for me to stick into google would be great. Thanks, Jan