From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm0-x244.google.com (mail-wm0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3506E3B2A0 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 06:20:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x244.google.com with SMTP id r201so3122600wme.0 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 03:20:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qQq2wGJBQYuRmIw9z6Z9Jjn01Tm25g90HoOoQrEOLA4=; b=UUHOpPakd2HuDoLqXfnrI0vllT6xfbok7QQyCmowBeyrLYQnyEGUXcQDq924hK35T6 oakAUFaWw+PQQr5DHDlAgFwaixG2qEMD58sJMS2TPmpZkszmie8L9MKA138oUB7n4UuV ExoHlAF03KuvHdw7yDtb+vfvofdNFazu7tI70++FwGEC2nJa7qRsIgegKQfXQxdlAYi9 9MoO8aYUEIfDZj604UB7DF5UiNPust35ILKcLpjP83DiQBirDTSnIaMJL/nDdcNyu6mF U4OFH93OjA8n+D3QIIdY2NrzZvfV1vkDYjBq82kkQvvwe0HusbNEzWYqsk7LUMk3U28p o6EA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qQq2wGJBQYuRmIw9z6Z9Jjn01Tm25g90HoOoQrEOLA4=; b=IwftinniHRXDq5aWLP7Kw2fveBN1y0rVeu1BURbfzvhYz4g8cS2SAOsOUYdprEVdWj v/iiuCECtcj8Y2K/E9L+iuPRMQ0B/lVmt2paAZoKp+BTR3OLDVKOn+QC0HgNXnrH6nMx paqKa1o5FW0eFSnWaLAmYB1YXvc34pIlj38uuEMBQdz5JUWL97lj9ZerRQGN8agIv109 8J6D3+Pm2qlTa072u60BEYloHTRyx/47B9qfG+HO1mN7FaiS7K6280ZJ/cU9fzqAtRIM PxlY3HifoWS6qHNLtF0nIMNtVX3QSgWAKRe9FKowj5GmGpL0pZTrwY6jW5CF2LWtID1q LWjg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tL6fFqQVhOtKlmnBJsukTZWXfQ2bibSaCc58FmrfFwEw5XJXGWQWgCbvCHzCmG1KA== X-Received: by 10.28.92.20 with SMTP id q20mr2655312wmb.76.1466245236350; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 03:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zotac.xperim.be (210.15-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be. [81.244.15.210]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c74sm3057929wme.1.2016.06.18.03.20.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Jun 2016 03:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.38] (zotac.xperim.be [192.168.1.38]) by zotac.xperim.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 098CE491C94; Sat, 18 Jun 2016 12:20:35 +0200 (CEST) To: Jonathan Morton References: <57650074.90106@gmail.com> Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net From: Jan Ceuleers Message-ID: <57652072.7020708@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 12:20:34 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [Bloat] ultrafast broadband conference june 27-30 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2016 10:20:37 -0000 On 18/06/16 12:09, Jonathan Morton wrote: > These buffers are not inherent to the link technology. > If they were, we’d be calling for different link technology. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. But this is exactly what Dave was doing, since he blamed the uplink bloat on "g.fast technologies". So it seems that you and I agree that it's not G.fast itself that is bloated, but the lack of proper buffer management in certain (most?) DSL modems, regardless of whether they support G.fast or some other flavour of DSL. Thx, Jan