From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x22e.google.com (mail-lj1-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 191B63B29E for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 07:52:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22e.google.com with SMTP id 83-v6so1606675ljf.10 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 04:52:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Yt/p5DjWsmCI3t4Hz3GXnDo7/a+G6003w+5s9w3hr+M=; b=gP1kZ3I0GJK1AmYWBZL4azXCix2TgRqz3yheugL6RYC9JZDcD8jQPEBIi2bbQfgewO kRlVA0tG2JItdWB2U8buDDO9G60SBh1L/8Kb9P5/eXjIM7gflfQd2HYEsXPetY4CgBYq +F3cudbgyc22dmhY2/yxCISXd/2WINCdNZOWaooTBh3xRPOj4I+XtrNxadArEDm0drKM +QSdKP6vXN7Xvmng+PzpSftFj1ed02ycm0PewQrijiviK3i2v7rWMoVKdwo0V89jdG5p L6yHA+2/3kHYh2wciUfH11/Et3OSdaJxjSuT/uWCCJITq7VsTSnxMJB/a+vgnohrGg8w /EPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Yt/p5DjWsmCI3t4Hz3GXnDo7/a+G6003w+5s9w3hr+M=; b=AvNBFloL1yrZ1uJ+pwa8Ps61n/Z/1cnedslmCCO7nIsChLKaOHbNk0DzB+2u6c2QAU 6WEYk5xYF5Yu40MF/n1s8xTMwU4IJmxHra3zCoB7RRpk5UNm6cGL02cLf52mXdllRLbr tAXQteYBax5nLJlIqoNc5dJo49YGuc4HFbuwnEiUwFTrfXgJ9fJeuLZlxYv1o52eMLM6 Mwxtgli8IDjcniL+5g+KuVuULr6LiNHzxRZLG2yRTDwNqmdD76A99ZqggD0iI2CPf5XO LSvyiS9+nk82bJLrjUWCMkstR6depZTu1NchnYBhhd9vSDbpLOmQmtnDV7D9g1pFOeCV cU1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZ1OpvYwTV4lKY3+r9AOqbcCV29IZZ9Z9rRIS3Y5jCFcbO/B8SZ lDLoxu32w2FyPUQgXLRk3Kk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VZq0epMRQye5XI9EDsUaa/eVKmaYAAEQXs6p2c1coj29w3jGpVh45cVIh1YjUNCP4hxmomGw== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:458b:: with SMTP id s133-v6mr999117lja.170.1543495977876; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 04:52:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-236-220-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.236.220]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b69sm302966lfl.28.2018.11.29.04.52.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Nov 2018 04:52:56 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <376C9A94-8EAA-4DCF-BFDC-ADA4E11A9FC7@ifi.uio.no> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:52:55 +0200 Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5AC079FD-8DCF-4F3A-9E3B-BFFD3D1099E7@gmail.com> References: <65EAC6C1-4688-46B6-A575-A6C7F2C066C5@heistp.net> <38535869-BF61-4FC4-A0FB-96E91CC4F076@ifi.uio.no> <87va4gwe74.fsf@taht.net> <7125B446-F2C4-45B3-B48C-8720B1E35776@gmail.com> <7D833179-4D95-4C2F-B0AF-4FFD4D29DEE4@ifi.uio.no> <963ACC89-890D-4EA6-9E5E-1E7315F07C5A@gmail.com> <376C9A94-8EAA-4DCF-BFDC-ADA4E11A9FC7@ifi.uio.no> To: Michael Welzl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Bloat] incremental deployment, transport and L4S (Re: when does the CoDel part of fq_codel help in the real world?) X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:52:59 -0000 > On 29 Nov, 2018, at 2:06 pm, Michael Welzl wrote: >=20 >> That's my proposal. >=20 > - and it's an interesting one. Indeed, I wasn't aware that you're = thinking of a DCTCP-style signal from a string of packets. >=20 > Of course, this is hard to get right - there are many possible = flavours to ideas like this ... but yes, interesting! I'm glad you think so. Working title is ELR - Explicit Load Regulation. As noted, this needs standardisation effort, which is a bit outside my = realm of experience - Cake was a great success, but relied entirely on = exploiting existing standards to their logical conclusions. I think I = started writing some material to put in an I-D, but got distracted by = something more urgent. If there's an opportunity to coordinate with relevant people from = similar efforts, so much the better. I wonder, for example, whether the = DCTCP folks would be open to supporting a more deployable version of = their idea, or whether that would be a political non-starter for them. - Jonathan Morton