From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 833723B2A4 for ; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 12:51:41 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1667062292; bh=uTDFaVIJ3uZe1Fbl8e21BW4IJ8Lrmj8hYkOTaAlJksE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=qcv/vCL5oEDnZpeTyNFTmA7QOtkvIqIscajf46KsMQX7QxUGqjorKuTHhBYWDlHHu 4ud6gzQqdThcS+5Zr/xyklvN1UnBClnylMXAQz6rKETI9DMTgvZmy7Y9dNbVH9gv9R yD79VdFiVUsZDX4VPP1ITCf6wJzAKk9awpPPAPuHu4K2Sfcx4A6LI1ChXhLgLog7t4 M7rrDUwAI8qOPbasUaXHHsDVG1+NbkX9ivv4RnGboG1Avmo5kDN2Xl85aG8d/ZQQ+S R0wRU2HJvFM9nor0EN7Dc+oRLmzX3aRk7j+oD6lOHOG4EO+gWwkk1CkAqCt+mhHv0h /517+m7NuxPOw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([77.0.146.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mn2aD-1pWAd92Fxn-00k8p5; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 18:51:32 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <523c300f-b2da-e2ff-f80b-2138e8263e61@unix-ag.uni-kl.de> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2022 18:51:31 +0200 Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5D452519-E3EE-4401-9265-AC99A873C52F@gmx.de> References: <523c300f-b2da-e2ff-f80b-2138e8263e61@unix-ag.uni-kl.de> To: Erik Auerswald X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:VcSi4MmUjTILgOX7ok+Eq50USTKMxh7kZJIQLhDtSrWJzh8MsNe oFbBphliLnVBcXGigP0scRO3RHqi/RuSSIzQU+dZW1d+MFDdKIM2gNioN4p/5iCP1Um1IPX yToRnSfbxpveEwvIShC/nRx95EJbg4DZtIM7BsWJ6EQ/GtFtqFQ0sY5keJlzRby86K5qkUC 3m7AFDpgWl6FQZCRU0esA== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:0m4cIbUd/l8=;nUVuvxTTmnpC4mSSqv9RSwOE/EJ qFaofzTXm28q/veg4i8Ml0qQGyNMVF0IzU9fc4DXi38MB089QqvCIYBYgO/4fIkIepqPeiCAk pXTEen/XsaYzepByVmVNa+UDugjcWpQkMbZBU8PS+fIgwsXxPVg1ACjGboxDB029+dAcV7PPb SYizZd2fPLLBJcGni9k8uc6sQQebWi5Mnd0vdt0xbCrBGjAhSgFaLsb/7JbUI+d6TkEkmx7ok tl2XisAhX4viplk5Q1T2zb79fNrrfXGcmtupMopgmHnJhkzl1Hi9XzvUB89fzgYDZ45puMoNP XSqxfBai+Z4AFFqNJRcdJANx7I6DCbi/0A9E9iAzf5OJQuoVS2nYDHV0L+iQHhJomwP5pCQAc zlmDZ3ADq2f+Qfzm2eFEdSnEe1BqXBl6J2988d9UpJfohTGycorNZrWyjtG4UOjchaQXP5Lha hSCGu6Ps27PdXdcRuCB8VdJdJkqUspC127QL/lfm44f7uzFau/hP89puNAEpSJHHz3U6jttAR OhSTyNOnaZvDt9F7kqhN8LPXzDYuQ/jI2SGhwo7uNPDzSiGmJUMLwUKvYpRoNcorn/jDPoVGH VYa/TQizPx6zD8LQlbNJYpS0RpeJLIDS4ccVm9ERhGLPpOr3vXcpZKtlhDCNPiKJBQELcuIxt ekT4H1IOUy3z0/RQVVs+0TsWle+aWzNZo58yyb8iw2NnVCmu/x0gg8w+LDzy8uOps+ha/6aBK UlINCWxz/UxebqukIzw9HynG1Fy3sGAAbOMO+BanNZOxinr1g4CVZyt4fw7lhldoHTduGAXRf S2RCs+qWqY5/uG/6cDRQBvwXTxwHkVUeJBNR/Y5V3q/VYFvc6wSPNNBLhHHw+ZYXYRHGXydeM NKqFA5BvWwpBpZOebxQtk8CTZs/UKdB1sGGAICOQ6qzF85YXU2f6Mq493np5H06SDPAMv/Bfs 5lE8NqpoyDFal5I0O1tUGISxhBs= Subject: Re: [Bloat] where home 5G can go south X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2022 16:51:41 -0000 Hi Erik, this fits with the suspicion that the biggest different between 4G (LTE) = and 5G in regards to low latency is the fact that with 5G it becomes = part of the marketing effort. IMHO the fact that 3GPPP has apparently bet on L4S as part of its = low-latency effort should make it clear that this is far from solid = engineering... Regards Sebastian >=20 > Hi, >=20 > On 28.10.22 23:10, jf--- via Bloat wrote: >>> On Oct 27, 2022, at 11:37 PM, Dave Taht via Bloat = wrote: >>>=20 >>> = https://blog.networkprofile.org/redundant-wan-ditching-t-mobile-5g-for-ver= izon-5g/ >>>=20 >>> This had some details as to the things that could go wrong from an >>> initial happy install of t-mobile, to something terrible. >>>=20 >> We=E2=80=99ve observed growing variability on some TMHI setups from = our fleet, and it seems there is a correlation to usage growth on a = single tower. Seems neighbors talk to hear other after all ;-) >> And yes, horrible bufferbloat on these variable capacity links. >>> The author switched to verizon, but what guarantees of continued >>> reliability does one have? >> It seems none ATM, as it really depends on user density vs tower = capacity. Woe to those that share a tower with a busy highway, =E2=80=98ru= sh hour=E2=80=99 likely means low capacity and even higher latencies. >=20 > As another anecdote: >=20 > In the German I city where I live, Internet access via 4G usually > works well, even though there are noticeable bufferbloat effects > for those who know how to look. >=20 > But when there is a significantly higher number of mobile users, > e.g., because of a soccer game or some other event with large > attendance, latency goes up and reaches several seconds with just > light network usage. >=20 > Thanks, > Erik >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat