From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03CCC3B2A4; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 07:59:07 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1661255945; bh=PMgWneYoV1SOTjutc7FtuRscY+B29g5rbnbFbZrDfcs=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=OtmDJD8ZgRXdNEqQ17SAVxxOw1ZU3tnbmxDtjaF9LwxJghsnBIOPCnrXRRFuTuI+I q2FIcUxu6XspMw4CLiC5vxm9B7DZd6Ad/Xz17tAkR0mhz8Y2Ll8xumKuwtPcvscUdK yAvp+YiZ7xX1yGQ7PKqpZcaSBNxk6TdPnI7bMJbY= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([95.116.64.184]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MIwzA-1okkb51zgo-00KOBC; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 13:59:05 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 13:59:03 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , Make-Wifi-fast , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5FFA1DC1-6C29-4743-B831-DD91E1F522A7@gmx.de> References: To: Bob McMahon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:sYjE/dJUHA8w1i7CHabnnAwmAE7gQxq+ZHpvDn2YmqDYqSasKcL E6ZU3nD2XDZeOEJzP1UndTGBOELZ9TthBHLbPLfRL1QUanzs0b6CibAmkthp99CHGOM+VbB JMAc1GDEOm8DHEbsE47tnKJ5uM7TZTIcZALhuBv9Cpw1vRZQKRXf1IeziOzIfzqCMjfxHfd U9/QdxiQv6bWvIOekUqOA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:xm4I6V/MDrc=:GX0EsSIfb3Z9QggDr8z0gY fOWhKxLv72Mu/mQHj879xZWm9vlZk4w011rnbwwDEY6IoHFIRIKJb/UAeZyMEUFfJrp6ra1I1 Ur9c2qzqNrah0/AdV4n0fjVw2uCpkh7cFK4x1IelqFKV2m/rOnoO3i4csgqi0j+MnLSSqtCEz 3+hFUvHhtd1DAH5fFPFXoaPm4aerhzAm+ep5/rYHCFJsBbhWBYOinhhIx3J//NRIS5bY0ktIL uaAiUxxId16YRMZ07YJSkr8kzXgSvzBFSQheXqGy+CIPW0bR4MV+Aq4oN5QmkVPebVMYhywzu YiAh2uXyd/A8qH7OkQ4a9IDLvGgkiKL9hJcGbVBcSuwhpe8muqe6oCn3OLv3ttltBSHWYXpcW jfG28qXLW39X9+IItBPc+/OwtSkbT87qNtZqwiUkxfKxYx6jKh82n9lHTyl9AzjOUpNNq9EK+ xDhseFniQi4DS8vpZdbwa/T0/qRrp9LBMpXnCPN0cbwtsLipKLFdGS5VWVlJNs1oaNYLnEfOC esqZExU9/WYMTJaIpi93RzLP82BvKhTZTwzFZzL9gkmcNZXdTQ6tCCurveKaL42Hcpv+hNWz2 vFjqfbP6eoq1RIlQFKWJ4dUr8W7xsglEEgpR87GMQnoYmwuEcjbjXZ1YTDEVQ1ts/TBDxJf7H +BL19qNrpliJ2DK+NKepnxhbSQl9a5qa8DvW2G9gpRwDXvOCgSUY2zeJgh+ADyNCN9rX4Vgqb z1Fw3HBU1RJYQfUdHp0iWQomIg4Uppk4GSZgUDNRJeV/H7I/Yw8kyRZDpBHBx3zY0r8dMXbws IlfFdSGrpAZ7pNxsKJffeudvUNnBDJRT3oe37lifFkICmFEgpuTJDZbFbAPYyaKPtbv9HY2KN NkwmxJ6cU862bpNjxCfsBxOtR0wZwlsuhEz0WtAn7fs3oV+gxWfIDo+YtPpbF8yW3iSj/84Uc e6kqrUmJ6Eu1y1k45EWoICoKdFUo9YRk3TMzo6Kcjd7zzvGY//ulIdITX/5+npxAET2yjFAuc 2ju7IKFi4IFGGFDHd0sUljVuuFIrjh0hv0IA9/6L1c7LqaCyLXFU+7Mlr2Xcgel9w5w/VhKeT f9olTxZzfvTrfp9kjYMXsaKj8IEi37pbhlYYDuSCShZrjW3hxqfvukRrw== Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] marketing wifi and broadband in the c-suite X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 11:59:08 -0000 Well, marketing and pricing policy have "trained" end-customers that speed is = the decisive factor, with faster plans being more expensive (which = implies a higher value). Even if an end-customer wanted to, there currently is no mass-market = offer where you "buy" lower latency. Even worse, ISPs that only offer = price-tiered contracts will recommend that latency affected customers = switch to faster plans (probably on the basis that it is more likely = that a faster link is not congested/running at capacity, so = under-managed and over-sized queues will not be as visible as on slower = plans with an equal load). > On Aug 22, 2022, at 21:30, Bob McMahon via Bloat = wrote: >=20 > Thanks for sharing this. It's interesting that the focus is still on = speed and not so much on latency/responsiveness.=20 >=20 > In addition to navigating the competitive landscape, BSPs must also = continually hone their > marketing messages to attract and recruit new subscribers. As Figure = 10 illustrates, based > on =E2=80=9Ctop priority=E2=80=9D responses, the C-levels are = following a pragmatic marketing message > strategy centered on faster speeds (54%), >=20 > This is judicious given that many of their competitors are also = focusing on network speed to enhance the quality of experience.=20 Likely because speed is the main factor correlating with relative = plan-price and they market the products they have? Take me as an = example, I am on a 100/40 plan, even though I could get 1000/50 for ~20% = more money, but thanks to fully acceptable QoE, thanks to competent AQM = and traffic shaping, I rather save that money. I am not saying that ISPs = actively "sabotage" their lower speed offers or the like, just that = increasing QoE of these too much will require to rethinking what a = plan's price should correlate with*. C-suite officers are hardly = interested on decreasing the ARPU by making their cheaper plans fully = sufficient for most uses ;).=20 Regards Sebastian *) This is where "responsiveness"/RPM might be helpful. > On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 10:23 AM Dave Taht via Make-wifi-fast = wrote: > = https://www.calix.com/content/dam/calix/marketing-documents/public/reports= /report_marketer-bb-provider.pdf >=20 > Very different world, but it stood out to me, that "managed wifi" was > a number #1 priority. Having wifi that actually worked right out the > box has always been mine.... >=20 > 'C-level "top priority=E2=80=9D marketing use cases include managed = Wi-Fi (46%), home > network cybersecurity and device security (both 45%), and professional = home > monitored security (42%). Rounding out the top five is social media = monitoring > (39%)"' >=20 > --=20 > FQ World Domination pending: = https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > _______________________________________________ > Make-wifi-fast mailing list > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast >=20 > This electronic communication and the information and any files = transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are = intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is = addressed and may contain information that is confidential, legally = privileged, protected by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from = disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the intended recipient or the = person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, = you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distributing, = dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is = strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please return = the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destroy any = printed copy of it._______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat