From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCA113B29D for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 13:37:44 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1637174263; bh=q9dC9R2ZD5YiJGzFJ+rm7lA1wlnhxQf/z7l4DG9Eyaw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=RSzckta4Laf491kCIoSjSpnn1FZA5KphkNK65D3a0hoRRz7ycaIIhk1x3bbIRsC57 acEG1OR0Syn2eh9wt6iYMtE3D1k753u4dc87J27rdO87+hyghw2TyhuRKl+08ElUEB nMNQbKoclam7aZ44jQaqc8B8kOtxl5p6kOiGZK8k= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([77.10.204.44]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M7Jza-1mk81T1dQy-007p52; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 19:37:43 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <0a66f576-76ec-ee48-aa53-1d87dc313f15@lackof.org> Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 19:37:42 +0100 Cc: bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6AB39E32-99A1-4F40-9B95-BC57D3FB67BA@gmx.de> References: <0a66f576-76ec-ee48-aa53-1d87dc313f15@lackof.org> To: Matt Taggart X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:GkHho64yTKh3MCv6iDeiciPtUHStxrKUbcaXRgTka3zw+rEpIzG A9azr5q04klbFbEZLzgBb/ZY4WV7wQSAN9ryQKJn8/mW5a78BBLY4v4iMOuxEIntPFMs1X7 awYo6EARUkucVzVJ+OICbnloT+s7+QibUOqR7bH/qEbpJDN+0DIvq8ofaUM4oBBy8/T3gur FkaB1sXzAQsXJpQqA/Dpg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:eDXuZyHcekw=:MsLWw0ylebk3QF4eE+iB1m 3/Sz47+y1Kludj7F7LVphiLGnlThV0VuN3thI4cJs+ojbVC7VRJWzSCFecJBgtiLFUeaeDmtq r8MBNpOCXMoCvEYYEBpp7T4HAHLnn9siZl2J1FPDeUtBM2DoX3dTkYd71mAxazKYaayxF3gXO 8Q9IRHtravs8FUyRlXUUGqulsR2Jum1hwHfEdHbvcAMoK4Dnq/MUBvgdQCenO87WxsldKXlDS g4Urp9Nma8Aus0e3Giizm+Mk2ifGvPSP5X9jbDqxiGWq3rNEwXlcYYvqjDd8ZgbbNjK55kpkd SAbRtiOKwSoThBH4EYNrc01eFXZJD3MG0NlxmMFBCKaVZGS17Zmid+Rmi/xmUOYqU/ahYPN1Z 3lK/dyPBMFypP49ZQ42mpEB8raR+3u1bdd1HanjvzXY0+ddzeIQ/rFYoRUpMAhJAnMj7E5Qv9 pzb5pFT2g4k1pECR3PAh2VHDj6DxEc4NOtUHyyOwJY/mmRRC0KbFtS2pzEpFwI0JGvguzR9IS fYMg2zBLHKjj2v59yx8OA0mWfzResk5kgnKICH08YXVts5YHUHykYidpRgP2S05z0zpnSg36o Q9+mH5+vfiVZDNB2OHZFF5uPSwsMBI3ODCBuEsx1KKZE8czNjB6iyrETnXeW6rEbhXMeOfrBc 7rn1YDuP2wrlLUu45kJaWnM30LEE6H257f2HezZsXU/Xwbwv7bPh7yVtDdbTDuxogx+WSaiEO JXiGhVdgCeWK069rNvL0WMitIMufbunnMQYjon4b/1uSFVOp3LlUcMuuF+RaDQnyYY9RQMRV/ eZRlAXIFYUIKKMbAiIwbT/n3iCj9KSTp59hFZxtnXHX7OMuIkxzerBi3rodm+Oju8bGpd2NbW uOyPtIrZAnqfha4jdhItK7wsjBe8HZ5EaUYWCOBwcSxcbaaePO1loGAsZjD5oLsnwc2AxyspT R4Spjd5hQ+Zu22Reh6Ekn3BxoNz/G/4O4hOnVW18b1evnLjcOkDttBWwo1QsYGPk/ee8tnITj D5PyRixNFIJNfDLElp7eKulBDA4VFfjgn7byySg15ITDCECp7c7UuCV4HCKkiGg5JiC3UcbeT 4hHODkF4S733Gc= Subject: Re: [Bloat] 250ms at 100Mbit fiber/cable X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:37:45 -0000 Hi Matt, > On Nov 17, 2021, at 19:04, Matt Taggart wrote: >=20 > On 11/17/21 9:28 AM, Dave Taht wrote: >> I find the data cluster over here at 250ms/100Mbit kind of worrisome: >> https://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat?up=3D1 >=20 > That graph is amazing! Things I noticed: > * clear division between technologies in bandwidth Sampling issue, over here in Germany docsis/cable upload tops = out at 50 Mbps, while VDSL2 at 40Mbps, at least on the uplink plot... > * the log scales are a great way to visualize things Yes and no; what they offer on overview, they lack in detail... = the difference from 250ms delay to 1 second seems smaler than from 30ms = to 250ms, yet I am sure internt with 250ms latency (while painful) is = leaps and bounds more usable than at 1sec.... > * you can make out the different bandwidth "tiers" that cable = providers offer Less clear in the download scatter plot at = https://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat, no? Only = 100Mbps stands out. > * fiber doesn't seem to show such tiers as much Funny the biggest fiber ISP in Germany sells fiber with similar = rate plans as DSL (50/10, 100/40, 250/40, 500/100, 1000/200) so tiering = should show up there as well, and if you clock on the cable legend text = (to blend cabe samples out) you see the 250ms/100Mbps blob that Dave = mentioned in the fiber results as well. As far as I can tell the classification really comes from the button = users pressed when running a test, so these categories will not be 100% = pure. Especially ince the different test profiles use different numbers = of flows and for most VDSL2 links the cable or fiber preset gives better = throughput results (as the 4? flows in the DSL preset often ca not = reliably saturate links >> 12 Mbps). > * DSL really drops off around 12mbit as expected, but there are some = well above that. User error when running the test? See above, in some regions/markets DSL variants offer speeds = well above 12 Mbos, e.g. VDSL2 reaching 250/40, of G.fast 500/500+, the = dslreports data set is not country specific. >=20 > I really like best/worst lists at the bottom. >=20 > How could this graph/data be used to measure progress on the = bufferbloat front? It would be neat to have an animation over time and = hopefully watch the points drift to the left. +1 that would be a great animation to have/show! >=20 > What if the graph had the ability to toggle data sets on/off: > * by technology That you can already do, just click on the respective text in = the legend and the symbol will grey out and the respective samples = disappear.=20 > * by ISP > * by region >=20 https://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results offers by country = and by ISP, but then does not show the nice log/log throughput over = inferred buffer size plot for these sub groupings. Best Regards Sebastian > Thanks for pointing it out >=20 > --=20 > Matt Taggart > matt@lackof.org > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat