From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-1" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FE7121FDE5 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 2015 07:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hms-beagle-3.home.lan ([87.164.163.215]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LjN0F-1YqJvC0dKR-00dUC2; Fri, 07 Aug 2015 16:43:21 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <20150807142337.GA22258@sesse.net> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 16:43:19 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6C2C7178-A999-4555-BA5E-7E951006C4C5@gmx.de> References: <4EDA85BE-CD86-4DA9-8ED5-78500E858F79@baylink.com> <20150807142337.GA22258@sesse.net> To: "Steinar H. Gunderson" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:cvtkGOhm+yPGH1x9sQ+a4K3PhEwvzG3r8FXMWngIAiUYGdhli9q e/hFn/yUCtd6C8/BWIZ/HdjJ6qoPZtS5bqZztY5jDaYWddJzeMWzkPRrb+W93iNxFFhYD2N 0o93WNqF1Tgr7/UshT45+/XONzVLamn/dvaEX3vrVntCRyennmQK737eQGUGMWqZRqsfGOz gQZNMGraozFwwbZt/a1PA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:iEVWtLcm10k=:6scD7kqxh68TQdGFe81anc iB1MPQmEmwdeCk+q8o/elByQ6WvX7xfZfiI698010FmZvz+USUheLviuVCZJPDGPqYKgpi0hJ 6aG2zsSoSoNOac+DtSXCk6aixjF2goo9koeP2hfnF910MvT9/X9Ra1pkdHuxGQBRibUk0LzXP MnUmWswvkQP5DkiHQpEsJzSpqsYSjrN/MYnOKYFaIOQ45HhxqbwYTYzTE58YNb9iGkJz+pqKT u3yqZI0mpFWnsKlcmDtxLIzdOhT7539sAm0tHkYqlbC5f9I9/Mqlc1TuJpCE0GFnIvM1a4S3n mSgWwiSfQ6/YNT3EkxRe+VURo5LE23pPJ//guq8/RBfz+ducqO/zH4EbojlwS/BM63wvp+5Jb XB623D6P2qJEpy+OqKZqMVWZ2hNO7+ORI7ScOBG6ihmzVHbCpyJQsvitRavhbXwPGS64Q6ibv 61XyBvaxoriNyUnJZSnDo8b1rBnsdvWMu5n71jLRhUNoLAHRe2ZzGdAj47tdLPXBcb8wUsagV PX64/bKtj/ycRkYVYHPvDzBsENppXSlJMPKvtBzwC6jkSgSUTvjJjtzgHJBoug1KIyNCVHxvO VZ5D3S74nrRVWgkZOp7ko/dZbNWGZN2SKyv9LjttnEqNg5C7pMZQLMDhY1OendFFeIa4dvmbn IzI1Ajhdrzbrvxf7DAdWADL8erHqugHb0sa7LZixTveJvmHf6iIrp1qneRE06N60ytWpp8gEL 8s/nXg9MgMn5XPKQDBRAYIF6NtvD3KthWC8TFQ== Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] Fwd: Did *bufferbloat* cause the 2010 flashcrash? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2015 14:43:54 -0000 Hi Steinar, On Aug 7, 2015, at 16:23 , Steinar H. Gunderson = wrote: > On Fri, Aug 07, 2015 at 02:13:20PM +0000, Livingood, Jason wrote: >> while customers were using BitTorrent (which led the company down a = bad >> path to try to fix it but that=B9s a long story). >=20 > But what _is_ a good path to fix the BitTorrent problem[1]? I still = haven't > seen a real-life practical solution. LEDBAT is negated by fq_codel, = DSCP > markings don't work (they get stripped, and usually were not even set = to > begin with), Except for [1] DSCP marking is a really simple solution as for = egress from a home network there is no remapping of code points not = under your control, so just teach your bit torrent client to behave (aka = mark its outgoing packets as CS1) and use sqm-script=92s single.qos, = which should be close to what you requested... > switching to IP-level fairness makes life hard for the torrent > user (not that it seems to even exist in fq_codel; fq_codel does not care as far as I know one can specify = different hashing schemes (expect I have not tried it myself so that = might not work). > and two-level fq_codel > doesn't seem to exist either). Build one your self ;) as long as you are willing to dedicate = two machines for that it should be =93simple=94, box one does proper = shaping and fq_codel by src-ip and box two does what ever you do on your = network, just make sure box one sits close to the real bottleneck=85 Actually, one of the more frequent requests on the openwrt forum = seems to be bit torrent users who want per-internal-IP fairness, or in = other words want to be able to dedicate a box to torrenting without = sacrificing all egress bandwidth to the bit-torrent deity ;) I have not = yet attempted to set this up. I hope that cake will make this easy: tc qdisc add dev eth2 root cake bandwidth 50mbit Usage: ... cake [ bandwidth RATE | unlimited ] # unlimited line rate is = the default [ besteffort | precedence | diffserv8 | diffserv4 ] # = diffserv variants including none [ flowblind | srchost | dsthost | hosts | flows ] # = hash algorithm on what fields [ atm ] # atm support (untested) (flowblind) gives pure single queue codel aqm behavior, = useful for testing the new codel implementation My guess is that the srchost hash should help a lot with outgoing = torrent traffic. > DPI to single out torrent traffic? I think > we've sort of tried that. :-) All this does is speeding up bit torrents evolution by selecting = against easy to spot =93markers=94 in the data... >=20 > [1] For the purposes of the question, the =93BitTorrent problem=94 is = when you > and I are on the same network, and your 200+ BitTorrent upload = sessions > makes it impossible for me to upload my single cat video to YouTube. I though part of the boot torrent challenge was the fact that on = ingress it can also wreck havoc? Best Regards Sebastian >=20 > /* Steinar */ > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/ > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat