[Bloat] broadband cost analysis

[Bloat] broadband cost analysis

[Dave Taht]

pretty good:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f5282b71117310d16e654d3/t/6256eb4efbb468024f396969/1649863506445/Toward+Effective+Administration+of+State+and+Local+Fixed+Broadband+Programs+-+04.12.22+Final+Report.pdf

My lowball cost estimate for "better, recycled routers" would be
somewhere in the 20 dollar range for the 25/3mbit segment, which
depending on how you do the math per above is somewhere between 10 and
65 million people.

It would be cool to have good bufferbloat statistics for the 25/3mbit
portion of the population.

-- 
I tried to build a better future, a few times:
https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org

Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

Re: [Bloat] broadband cost analysis

[Dave Taht]

Looking at figure 7 (non-adoption rates by age group), nearly 30% of
those under 30 do not have fixed broadband.
From an informal survey of those I know in that age range, they are
primarily dependent on their cell phones,
cannot live at a fixed address for long enough to adopt fixed
broadband solutions, and go to coffee shops and
libraries (and the office) to get their connectivity. I am kind of
curious as to the trendline here - a cellphone is a must
for this generation, quality fixed internet merely a nice to have.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 8:18 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> pretty good:
>
> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f5282b71117310d16e654d3/t/6256eb4efbb468024f396969/1649863506445/Toward+Effective+Administration+of+State+and+Local+Fixed+Broadband+Programs+-+04.12.22+Final+Report.pdf
>
> My lowball cost estimate for "better, recycled routers" would be
> somewhere in the 20 dollar range for the 25/3mbit segment, which
> depending on how you do the math per above is somewhere between 10 and
> 65 million people.
>
> It would be cool to have good bufferbloat statistics for the 25/3mbit
> portion of the population.
>
> --
> I tried to build a better future, a few times:
> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org
>
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC



-- 
I tried to build a better future, a few times:
https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org

Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

Re: [Bloat] [Rpm] broadband cost analysis

[Rich Brown]

One item to consider re: costs. My rural NH town just installed fiber to run past all premises. A quick estimate of total capital cost uses two numbers:

- $40K/mile to hang the fiber on existing utility poles on the road
- $2K-$4K per premise for the drop cable from the pole and the router in the premise


> On Apr 14, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Dave Taht via Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> Looking at figure 7 (non-adoption rates by age group), nearly 30% of
> those under 30 do not have fixed broadband.
> From an informal survey of those I know in that age range, they are
> primarily dependent on their cell phones,
> cannot live at a fixed address for long enough to adopt fixed
> broadband solutions, and go to coffee shops and
> libraries (and the office) to get their connectivity. I am kind of
> curious as to the trendline here - a cellphone is a must
> for this generation, quality fixed internet merely a nice to have.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 8:18 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> pretty good:
>> 
>> https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f5282b71117310d16e654d3/t/6256eb4efbb468024f396969/1649863506445/Toward+Effective+Administration+of+State+and+Local+Fixed+Broadband+Programs+-+04.12.22+Final+Report.pdf
>> 
>> My lowball cost estimate for "better, recycled routers" would be
>> somewhere in the 20 dollar range for the 25/3mbit segment, which
>> depending on how you do the math per above is somewhere between 10 and
>> 65 million people.
>> 
>> It would be cool to have good bufferbloat statistics for the 25/3mbit
>> portion of the population.
>> 
>> --
>> I tried to build a better future, a few times:
>> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org
>> 
>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> I tried to build a better future, a few times:
> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org
> 
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Rpm mailing list
> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm

Re: [Bloat] broadband cost analysis

[Michael Richardson]

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Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
    > Looking at figure 7 (non-adoption rates by age group), nearly 30% of
    > those under 30 do not have fixed broadband.  From an informal survey of
    > those I know in that age range, they are primarily dependent on their
    > cell phones, cannot live at a fixed address for long enough to adopt

There is another group that live with roomates, and whose roomates control
the broadband, either for reasons of distrust, or because of who is competent
and who is not.

I think that those groups could also really benefit from reductions in
bufferbloat because they basically can't control what their roomates do.
The "Fair" in FQ is pretty important.

    > fixed broadband solutions, and go to coffee shops and libraries (and
    > the office) to get their connectivity. I am kind of curious as to the
    > trendline here - a cellphone is a must for this generation, quality
    > fixed internet merely a nice to have.

In Canada, rates are sufficiently high until you get to unlimited tier that
young people can not affort to stream video on their mobiles.  The kids you
see on the subway streaming continuously have rich parents with unlimited family plans.


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Re: [Bloat] [Rpm] broadband cost analysis

[Livingood, Jason]

On 4/14/22, 11:40, "Bloat on behalf of Rich Brown" <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of richb.hanover@gmail.com> wrote:

>    $2K-$4K per premise for the drop cable from the pole and the router in the premise

What is the CPE router? Does it have AQM or some other latency control mechanism?

Thx!
Jason

Re: [Bloat] [Rpm] broadband cost analysis

[Dave Taht]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 7:48 AM Livingood, Jason via Bloat
<bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> On 4/14/22, 11:40, "Bloat on behalf of Rich Brown" <bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of richb.hanover@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >    $2K-$4K per premise for the drop cable from the pole and the router in the premise
>
> What is the CPE router? Does it have AQM or some other latency control mechanism?

I wish we knew what those costs were projected to be. It would if more
folk were to be persistently asking these questions of the authors of
these plans. I tried, recently, to get even one of my questions
answered at this recent interview last week of the NTIA broadband
administrator, with no luck.

https://discuss.broadband.money/c/broadband-grant-events/alan-davidson-fireside-chat
>
> Thx!
> Jason
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat



-- 
I tried to build a better future, a few times:
https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org

Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

Re: [Bloat] broadband cost analysis

[Rich Brown]

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> On Apr 15, 2022, at 12:00 PM, bloat-request@lists.bufferbloat.net wrote:
> 
>> 
>>   $2K-$4K per premise for the drop cable from the pole and the router in the premise
> 
> What is the CPE router? Does it have AQM or some other latency control mechanism?

I should have included the details in my original note:

The cost per premise includes the ONT - they're using Calix Gigacenter - plus all the materials and labor to run the drop from the pole to the home, plus all the interior work, plus any time spent making sure the customer is on the air. 

NB: The $40K/mile includes the cost of system design, obtaining licenses to use the utility poles, other regulatory hoo-hah, make-ready - surveying the exact location of all the poles, inspecting them for suitability (not rotten, tall enough to carry another service, etc), replacing any sub-standard poles, then the cost of actually hanging the steel strand and the fiber on the poles.

And no, the CPE doesn't include any AQM that I'm aware of. Latency isn't dreadful, but many people still use their IQrouters (installed because we could only get 7/1 mbps DSL prior to the arrival of the fiber connectivity.)

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