Re: [Bloat] Best approach for debloating Airbnb host?

[Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>]

Hi Rich,


> On Oct 17, 2023, at 14:39, Rich Brown via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> I stayed in an Airbnb rental last week. It was nicely appointed with a very gracious host who lived in the other half of the home. They had decent internet from xfinity - I was getting 20mbps/5mpbs.
> 
> But.. they have bad bufferbloat. I was on a Zoom call and occasionally people would sound like Darth Vader. I busted out a ping test to 8.8.8.8 and sure enough, latency spiked from a nominal 10-20 msec to 2500 msec and occasionally over 4000 msec.

	[SM] Maybe good to occasionally get a dose of the "common" internet experience to not forget how much we can achieve and how many networks are still feeling/behaving worse than they need to.


> I had to check out before I had a chance to mention it to the Airbnb host. And I'll probably leave it alone. But I'm still wondering - if I wanted to evangelize:
> 
> 1. What would I say? I know I don't want to blurt out, "your network has bufferbloat". That sounds worse than the cooties :-) I imagine that I'd mumble something about the Zoom call occasionally sounding like Darth Vader, and that I'm a network professional and recognize the symptom, and that there's a technical fix for it. I'd probably pause to see if their eyes lit up ("Oh, that happens to us all the time...") before proceeding. And then...

	[SM] I am terrible at such things, as I am not a people person, but I think that this approach, casual conversation touching a few topics and see whether it touches any pain points is a good one. No matter how bad the network if the users do not notice it will be a hard sell, especially with "strangers". What might help is to have a travel router prepared that can be plugged in via ethernet (and after a quick visit to the sqm-config) and used on the spot to demonstrate things (even though doing a video conference on the spot or trusting strangers to add gear to your network both seem awkward).


> 2. What would I recommend? Obviously, inserting something with cake into the mix would help a lot. Even if they were willing to let me examine their entire network (Comcast router, Apple Airport in our Airbnb unit, other router?) I have no idea what kind of tar baby I would be touching. I don't want to become their network admin for the rest of time.

	[SM] This is why maybe a demo unit would be helpful, but then we would need something with commercial grade support to point them at? Maybe evenroute's IQrouter (I like their approach, but I never tested it).

> I know Dave Täht recommends that you help your local coffee shop debloat their network. But that's a place that you develop a personal relationship and you visit often enough to answer questions during a shake-down period. And they'll probably "let you in the back" to see what's there.
> 
> Anyone have good ideas about handling this? Or should I give it up?Thanks!

	[SM] Again, I do not, I even failed (yet, still working on it) to convince my dad that his network could be improved.... (In his defense he mostly operates well below capacity and at 50% utilization there simply is no noticeable bufferbloat, remedies or no remedies ;) )


Regards
	Sebastian

P.S.: In theory having a test bed that could e tested directly over the internet could be convincing, if such a thing would not at the same time make all alarm bells ring about trusting such a test as unbiased and objective. 


> 
> Rich
> 
> 
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