From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0D403CB38; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 09:43:09 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1628084585; bh=RYNvDmrgWT+gUsDEpra5220Tu95Y2F5J/L51uXKHyxg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=ehq1i7FZOnt2lYyqoGWJL+DfhFh+KJX7XxtZaF/9MqUJW0jsudi4dRzYkJ8xeYQqJ hWmYdZVhz44rUzd1z9DNsy9mlcfmZvSGmbqfqi/cdp3JF2LKSkBVUd4GSedNeBPhN7 G2HENhAJr11U5O9V0CJz9fq39lwy+FfYf8+DakVo= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.42.229] ([77.0.38.27]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N5GDv-1nCDS029O1-011Bcu; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:43:05 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 15:43:04 +0200 Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson via Bloat , Jonathan Morton , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, dickroy@alum.mit.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8393833B-BE11-4B97-92CC-95C2B48305B9@gmx.de> References: <058681B8-89EB-42ED-8E82-4048BA3C9504@cable.comcast.com> <649DC4B024D74B8BA6926ABFCD52DC79@SRA6> <5C65BC6E-1ABD-4432-B2CE-AC8BACDA363D@gmx.de> To: Mikael Abrahamsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:9cDDikv1vLwfB4h2T4+sPARgfBTW3HVZA4WLZvlpB5Zay97c6JX wVyyb0DLRQzUeV6ISzWg8777emQhATElyHLkRfYN3M1ukr4/KNdgBSR64PUN0OtQ7L9k5T9 cCoWI2JpAv/gTQo+snHWOqo+LBnpvy076IUk2RgfpJ9bnmlmz+XWZVazRS6K0oEKgerh8IO fMF4QWy+luMB+moYk7hdA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:gTfyMtnbR60=:4U1S4OeUKA5EUij8Qz/RbO KZEulgTjKi2nzyixqC41jA+cyD/ZDMTvuEx2jbKTE9HNlMGL38axhsi4qxQ0MOC54/nGaNA5V yfMBjYN+/ydhQYGcuZjtHZMPlBl7CJtn0sQNYZplJuh6yjif5McoccHNil8VC5bRB0pvoEFwo 9ogLBVqzHrYm4JOCB3b56pItTvMV5VrBTWytsD7YJ1xsOnxqK1v5aTOSRJX2YTlsCtr8zcSMC rj7shBCs9jCkArIIhkwKnQnw851bx8d2jhqbVLe11iuIZGuiUsb6bUUfcFnlcBbtcCiWrX6jQ SjYw1/1vrw3LWlehZGOkeoOQvDlTI81NTAtBmimgqhb+KlYxfu/LAs0BEkTZBwDnvS11IJaJn itOBK+B8SW1l1d2K2cSP8cjsajNs00A4aNoFLA0QqMrqF3E8F30GQV2hsjJc10d7LsgkkDNMH ibxoJDuEcURWySn8DqavKaGkZV4M0ZNdeK/H+ScPzT4RF+TiQVkhBrPn637EOhwZyTmYfWEty jzF2ZfAxTEyLy3+4EvZnJkC8fb2DAREmSVTsetXpI8jVlxjwXwPY245SItmqkkNIQH2p+ASHm xTfTFTE3SUr7AaL/IrGNfUbliRIysNZVLj4h04axyQnNDpDphOmeXsYnSznrAX4jCQstE9Rha LGJgo8PqzVeey21NKmH/AGqTmHdtQ85+CrFgpa2QzVjZFIoqnaoYZ4CsqrIIaBWn08g1+Tovg wxvJ1dkocf/7GoCJSrUD8l21xa6FpLTayvnvr0BwUa0kSBRhfq9aoc7TpxgfhC5rBSCnGLu/+ /ezaeM3vHYkvvbvQA0PrqYnccU5xk5DYLCa8lBhVCPs9Ueu2xWucQT9LfJO84fz1mP1l3youB yIg/hVMJgFk0hMBZY+EuI9f0juPbIiztcIt0tR5E3JPrfHBaoed0gyeoCndZWJ19xjQkalEmA W2jRyvb8oqDJc7Xm+eWY6fUVLUBG18ACEjndn4BPNw/bWKkWG1k4ohd3lsnE9XiD92fz4R+wB eWVTyoz2OrtM2xeZShgMIhsWUJIO1YuBcEI1/jUKADVgzGQpYb9Mh4HiqZ9XnXI3k14tbnPzh TEiUN3c2t1S1S7BBhzvxmeyBavBsRkxjCFBJLEt2eQiueLfCFiJocGkCQ== Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Starlink] Of interest: Comcast AQM Paper X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 13:43:10 -0000 Hi Mikael, > On Aug 4, 2021, at 15:06, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >=20 > On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, Sebastian Moeller wrote: >=20 >> I guess the point is AQM is not really that expensive, even FQ AQM, = traffic shaping however is expensive. But for wifi shaping is not = required so AQM became feasible. >=20 > My point is that CPU based forwarding has very bad performance on some = platforms, regardless if you're doing shaping, AQM or none of them = (FIFO). >=20 > If it's not hw accelerated, it sucks. >=20 > When I did tests on MT7621 it did ~100 meg/s without flow-offload, and = full gig with it. Reminds me of the joke of the gent sitting in a pub boasting the = size of his property being so immense it takes a full week to ride = around the perimeter... To which another guest responds wryly, he used to have a horse that slow = in the past as well.... Point being a number of commercially sold CPE are not fit for = the job of doing anything at Gbps link rates... sure accelerators can be = nice, but they all come at the expense of reduced generality... Give = that a raspberry Pi 4B has no trouble doing traffic shaping a 1Gbps = (plus firewalling, NAT, PPPoE, ... and all of this in "software" with = full generality) there is little excuse of still selling deploying CPE = that were a decent fit for DSL link rates... But I live in a rich = country where ISP take 2-5 EUR rent per month for CPE, so money is not a = reasonable excuse for an ISP over here to cut corners....=20 Regards Sebastian >=20 > --=20 > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se