From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-01-ewr.dyndns.com (mxout-210-ewr.mailhop.org [216.146.33.210]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05A742E0077 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 11:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from scan-02-ewr.mailhop.org (scan-02-ewr.local [10.0.141.224]) by mail-01-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A4E81FB4EE for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:07:22 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 () X-Mail-Handler: MailHop by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 75.145.127.229 Received: from gw.co.teklibre.org (75-145-127-229-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [75.145.127.229]) by mail-01-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308861FB4E9 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:07:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cruithne.co.teklibre.org (unknown [IPv6:2002:4b91:7fe5:1::20]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cruithne.co.teklibre.org", Issuer "CA Cert Signing Authority" (verified OK)) by gw.co.teklibre.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B354D5EE28 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:07:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by cruithne.co.teklibre.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B71FA121FAC; Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:07:20 -0700 (MST) From: d@taht.net (Dave =?utf-8?Q?T=C3=A4ht?=) To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Organization: Teklibre - http://www.teklibre.com References: <871v3ey4rk.fsf@cruithne.co.teklibre.org> <20110211175518.GA32302@bougret.hpl.hp.com> <20110211181107.GB32302@bougret.hpl.hp.com> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 12:07:20 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20110211181107.GB32302@bougret.hpl.hp.com> (Jean Tourrilhes's message of "Fri, 11 Feb 2011 10:11:07 -0800") Message-ID: <8739nuwftj.fsf@cruithne.co.teklibre.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: [Bloat] Analyzing wireless multiqueue behavior & bufferbloat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 19:07:26 -0000 (I note that although my personal focus is on wireless, that bufferbloat is a current problem in many/most other types of devices, and I do not want the bufferbloat discussion dominated by wireless issues.) I suppose it would help others a little bit if others knew the formerly private email jean was responding to: I'd written: All: I've (as yet) been unable to dig up anything that coherently explains how the Linux mq and multiq qdiscs (if indeed, they are different) are supposed to be hooked up to the wireless driver portion of the stack, and managed. There also seems to be an impedance mismatch between the availability of various theoretical QoS mechanisms in the 802.11 standards and their actual implementations in the networking stacks. We're treating wireless too much like ethernet to the detriment of the entire internet. I have no insight at all as to how things are done on Apple products. High on my list is making TX_RETRY a tunable. And I'm deeply concerned about possible side-effects of packet aggregation in 802.11n. I've also been unable to dig up the original mosquitonet paper - or something more current - that determined the need for link layer error correction/retransmits in the first place. Perhaps you guys could ask around for more/better information on these issues and get back on them to the bloat list? [1] -- Dave Taht http://nex-6.taht.net