From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-04-ewr.dyndns.com (mxout-105-ewr.mailhop.org [216.146.33.105]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B0E2E02E9 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2011 14:12:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from scan-01-ewr.mailhop.org (scanner [10.0.141.223]) by mail-04-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7497E5829 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2011 22:12:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 () X-Mail-Handler: MailHop by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 75.145.127.229 Received: from gw.co.teklibre.org (75-145-127-229-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [75.145.127.229]) by mail-04-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE4C17E5804 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2011 22:12:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cruithne.co.teklibre.org (unknown [IPv6:2002:4b91:7fe5:2:21c:25ff:fe80:46f9]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cruithne.co.teklibre.org", Issuer "CA Cert Signing Authority" (verified OK)) by gw.co.teklibre.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B0BE5E91B for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2011 15:12:24 -0700 (MST) Received: by cruithne.co.teklibre.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E9AD0121B7D; Sat, 5 Feb 2011 15:12:22 -0700 (MST) From: d@taht.net (Dave =?utf-8?Q?T=C3=A4ht?=) To: richard Organization: Teklibre - http://www.teklibre.com References: <20110205132305.GA29396@thyrsus.com> <1296935338.12017.60.camel@amd.pacdat.net> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 15:12:22 -0700 In-Reply-To: <1296935338.12017.60.camel@amd.pacdat.net> (richard@pacdat.net's message of "Sat, 05 Feb 2011 11:48:58 -0800") Message-ID: <8739o2i115.fsf@cruithne.co.teklibre.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] First draft of complete "Bufferbloat And You" enclosed. X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2011 22:12:27 -0000 richard writes: > I like your vehicle analogy but I think today's network-using public can > relate better to a real-world situation in the internet so I've put > together my own article on the problem. I'd already started the article > last week and finally got to finish it today. > http://digital-rag.com/article.php/Buffer-Bloat-Packet-Loss Wondeful! That's 3 non-jg pieces in a row that "get" it, and explain specific bits of it well.=20 There are three excellent animations of how TCP/IP actually works here: http://www.kehlet.cx/articles/99.html Perhaps that would help your piece somewhat. I keep hoping that someone graphically talented will show up that can do animations similar to those above, that clearly illustrate bufferbloat. Anyone? Anyone know anyone? Another analogy that was kicked around yesterday on the #bufferbloat irc channel was the plumbing one - where more and more stuff is poured into a boiling kettle (a still perhaps) until it overflows, or explodes. Here's a title of a piece that *I* daren't write:=20 =E2=80=9CDraino for the Intertubes=E2=80=9D I've struggled mightily to explain bufferbloat to so many people. For example I spent 3 hours talking with an artist that understood protools - and thought the internet was all slaved to a master clock.=20 I'm very glad to see y'all helping out. There's still lots left to do, not just in communication but in actually getting some work done on both the easy and hard engineering problems. But staying on the communication front: If a little kid asked you, in a small thin voice,=20 =E2=80=9CWhy is the internet slow today?=E2=80=9D How would you explain it? How'd you explain it to a doctor? A lawyer? Your mom? Your boss? As it happens I have studio time this weekend, if anyone is into script writing I can fake up a few voices. I have two ideas that I might be able to fit into 2 minutes each, but kind of have to tear myself away from email to work on...=20 > It could have some more technical terms (latency for example) added to > it but I limited it to the concept of window and ACK for now. > This, though dated, is a good reference on latency. http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/rants/Latency.html A modernized one would be great... There was some good stuff on one of the audio lists/web sites that I saw, I'll look for it.=20 Audio guys *get* latency. So do the real time guys. Few others. > It takes the content of a recent ad from a local ISP and talks about > what is actually going on "under the hood" Lots of public confusion to counter. The nice thing is - we have mitigations that *work*. What do they have? --=20 Dave Taht http://nex-6.taht.net