From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.toke.dk (mail.toke.dk [52.28.52.200]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7158A3B2A2 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 15:39:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.toke.dk (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C65D72E4; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 21:39:21 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=toke.dk; s=20161023; t=1479933561; bh=7lUjmMIkhveWTC/vZ73tUHM+HklUCBLVcOehbRayagU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=RSPnm9EMc7Wr9ztZIsBJ+sgG7LuUMdmfz3w3J+Zwy4mTFNMYzy8yLwThhrQYLSDFb DvdevEuY8h8pitXJu8CsPHXXm/EldHMwSknqIwdwblMurbPEjdni6Mg9XdUeji/g1D iHL2pi5/Rf/kY06m4uWE48zYX+Q0HTtUaNYnifSu7tgNYwRsreHKEOoiVFAHTB6PmH shdsIsIdLhyngDSFSFUg7wlK3fu1CdpvUrJvKrBdk0cIG1fb69xneov6uILWe6z/6R la758mHYiSZi7btqSn3ag0avyx6f4h+YnzR0zg+FPiwqXa5akJMH4iN2xeKH2WGN3k 4jBQqGZWdyA3g== Received: by alrua-karlstad.karlstad.toke.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5062495A829; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 21:39:21 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: Dave Taht Cc: Sebastian Moeller , bloat References: <8d72490d-551a-c58f-991a-1750e9af8df9@gmail.com> <653CD759-7E08-43BC-9FDC-3B082917F33E@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 21:39:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Dave Taht's message of "Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:24:16 -0800") X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: <878tsarkw6.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] fixing bufferbloat in 2017 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 20:39:22 -0000 Dave Taht writes: > On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Sebastian Moeller wro= te: >> >>> On Nov 23, 2016, at 19:09, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016, David Lang wrote: >>> >>>> Deploy what we already know to work on the real edge devices and thing= s get vastly simpler. >> >> One problem will be that the actual edge devices are often ISP >> supplied and hence extremely cost sensitive; combined with incre= asing >> bandwidth in many ISP offerings, having CPEs that can perform in= gress >> shaping at =E2=80=9Cmodern=E2=80=9D rates looks challenging if t= he same CPEs also need >> to be very cheap. Egress shaping is a different kettle of fish t= hough >> and for most asymmetric plans the CPE either should have enough = punch >> or might be amendable to a BQL-like solution that could e actual= ly >> relatively computationally cheap. But for that to happen we woul= d need >> to convince ISPs and/or CPE chipset manufacturer (or better those >> engineers that create the drivers for the SDKs). > > One benefit of the fq_codel on wifi work is that for homes that are > primarily wifi, you no longer need inbound rate shaping to work, you > can do it on the wifi naturally. > > A long term plan might be to try to develop code that could be used at > the ISP, a transparent bridge that would take over customer rate > shaping and queue management. Hardware "good enough" to do this, > ranging from high end xeons to the next generation NXP products, to > mellonox's bluefield thing, is arriving, and I anticipate being able > to effectively fq and shape 1000s of customers with gear that costs > less than 10k - maybe not with linux, but with vpp and/or dpdk. I happen to know of at least one company that offers this kind of middle box and also ships CoDel and BLUE (I think it was). Those are DPI boxes, though (*shudder*) -- and I think the price tag is quite a bit more than $10k... :/ -Toke