From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-2.mimecast.com [207.211.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60D693CB35 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 08:27:29 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1571833649; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=cdqqUP3pnHKxti+NLfA00JiM/FGRfVVENkjuQpgWgz0=; b=SJKo7x2YJngYp457orIO+D9wO3q2vWtGykdzjrOGWZRC5ufzcbPi9HMW+lFcZQBE+sz2Cz aYoqn5g9SvM3T6tz5wAlkvzsoNMNtn9MO6t1p194iFqJGRj3LM6e24smI6RmceFgrWRUgr lDZyYU0wENBvrt00KiAxAmmdYhHihO0= Received: from mail-lf1-f72.google.com (mail-lf1-f72.google.com [209.85.167.72]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-285-tN5UaYihOIWFNy3D-st1Yw-1; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 08:27:24 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f72.google.com with SMTP id f3so4078330lfa.16 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 05:27:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=3CSi0GBn7NZ42gUt0yIUXtbiWV3+h7ulZFwsc212tDI=; b=tgT1SrMmlg3f9AE38dFv8in1VBoJ2y3Y4S/t77wMuewah9zSiuiCDXPA5mjpz+vNO9 l2KMvztXwvT3q6uucVDH3biFKHOQqvSUjcFRfXQhnIX/5DKqfBsUX/8HycOH0dWsaSKz aievkCCa4bRT6XR0OWhAkE6eP4cXTEacFXEqXMx+Ky5DMonY2/PG59Q9lUt1dA3TZuRa /r8T1prXdUuH74zU2Jb5fYxqj1BV0NlU1V0IMvnHawA8twR6lHbAKtjCrGhi8XGMyYcc U7mgBObZNK2aWUtldlfhZ5EhsUUBjhzUUSKc5tWFr6wpsfdREPQqB7k8OkOrLc4Yr1qd fnWA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXzbVDZFBowR2U1MOfGXtE6mklE/0d/ehYyfFhdcfQOW8v9IPHv l7M5h466eODJZxYw/IyG64N0jbyCgiqmvUXNWhYQ48Xr+NRGe8FBr+eI9UrizIoS54DylXhmMC3 vQuhxReV1I7Io/RR6OfmFaLE= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:55b4:: with SMTP id y20mr22090442lfg.173.1571833643277; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 05:27:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzeIkmVrtV8Zy2/ZCkTEuJnNdh+WrT7rB2ZqCWlt1IAA0KZUYpyljqa68izk1uxAnCZN5OTMQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:55b4:: with SMTP id y20mr22090427lfg.173.1571833643092; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 05:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alrua-x1.borgediget.toke.dk ([2a00:7660:6da:443::2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c18sm14482633ljd.27.2019.10.23.05.27.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 23 Oct 2019 05:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by alrua-x1.borgediget.toke.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 884891804B1; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:27:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Toke =?utf-8?Q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: Rich Brown , bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: <0876C235-C6D3-42B0-9D93-114DB75D4204@gmail.com> References: <0876C235-C6D3-42B0-9D93-114DB75D4204@gmail.com> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:27:21 +0200 Message-ID: <87d0enmyty.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MC-Unique: tN5UaYihOIWFNy3D-st1Yw-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] Bufferbloat on 4G Connexion X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 12:27:29 -0000 Rich Brown writes: >> On Oct 23, 2019, at 5:54 AM,> wrote: >>=20 >> If you could influence the 4G vendors to de-bloat their equipment, >> would you recommend BQL, L4S or codel/cake? > > I've been enjoying this discussion and wonder whether the work going > on in the make-wifi-fast > (https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/make-wifi-fast/) is relevant. > > I only have a 30,000 foot understanding of this work, but it seems the > use of AQL (Airtime Queue Limit) maps better onto the vagaries of > 4G/5G radio transmissions than BQL. Specifically, having a measurement > of the actual time it takes to transmit a packet might give additional > information about the current link speed, with the potential for > adjusting the codel target, etc. Indeed, I suspect something like AQL would work for LTE as well. At the right level; think this might need to be in the firmware (which in turn could push back on the host). > Separately, I also wonder whether the Air Time Fairness algorithm > might provide a benefit if the cellphone tower station manufacturers > chose to get into the game. LTE base stations already does TDMA scheduling (which they can do easily because they are centralised and own the license band); airtime fairness is about getting the same benefits into WiFi that LTE has been enjoying from the get-go :) -Toke