From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-04-iad.dyndns.com (mxout-103-iad.mailhop.org [216.146.32.103]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2682E020F for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 06:56:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from scan-01-iad.mailhop.org (scan-01-iad.local [10.150.0.206]) by mail-04-iad.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 014A08345FA for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:56:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 () X-Mail-Handler: MailHop by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 75.145.127.229 Received: from gw.co.teklibre.org (75-145-127-229-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [75.145.127.229]) by mail-04-iad.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B120833DE7 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:56:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cruithne.co.teklibre.org (unknown [IPv6:2002:4b91:7fe5:2:21c:25ff:fe80:46f9]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cruithne.co.teklibre.org", Issuer "CA Cert Signing Authority" (verified OK)) by gw.co.teklibre.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70B805EE28 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 07:56:04 -0700 (MST) Received: by cruithne.co.teklibre.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 99FAD121B05; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 07:56:03 -0700 (MST) From: d@taht.net (Dave =?utf-8?Q?T=C3=A4ht?=) To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Organization: Teklibre - http://www.teklibre.com Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 07:56:03 -0700 Message-ID: <87ei78kozg.fsf@cruithne.co.teklibre.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Bloat] new members, welcome! X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:56:08 -0000 We hit a milestone sometime early this morning. There are now 100 people on this mailing list! New members, welcome! I'd love it if we/you'd could circle back to some earlier threads in conversation[1], in particular I'd like to see the glossary of agreed upon terms expanded. [2] I'd like the "dark buffers" concept expanded [3] to include retransmits or a new term invented. If any of the 28 that have signed up for the wiki do not have editing privs, please contact me off list. Also we had much discussion, since fizzled out, on a good introductory analogy to how the internet actually works. [4] I confess that I'm a little buried right now in trying to assemble additional hardware resources worldwide, while working at layers 8 & 9 of the stack on the background bufferbloat detector idea. [5]. I just got a large data set to play with. Nathaniel's iwl patches look promising (only minor quibbles on the Linux-wireless list[6] - I am editing down a recorded conversation with Felix Fietkau (one of the main openwrt & wireless developers and author of the minstrel rate control algorithm) that started as a discussion of my latency-smashing-yet-horrifying-to-him ath9k patch[7]. It later turned into a marvelous indepth discussion of how 802.11n wireless actually works and some possible solutions[8], down to a low level. I think it is well worth understanding for people more familiar with wires or higher levels of the stack [9]. I like the concept of "Bufferbloat Public Radio" in that sometimes it's just nice to get away from the computer and listen to something while doing something else, but that's me. Do others like this idea? We had a LOT of downloads (probably over a 1000 by now) of jg's mp3. Thanks everybody for your concern and interest in fixing bufferbloat. 1: https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/bloat/2011-February/thread.html 2: http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Glossary 3: http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Dark_buffers 4: https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/bloat/2011-February/000050.html 5: https://github.com/dtaht/Cosmic-Background-Bufferbloat-Detector I also ran into data representation issues - perhaps postgres isn't the right thing. 6: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/64733 7: https://github.com/dtaht/Cruft/blob/master/bloat/558-ath9k_bufferbloat.patch 8: https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/bloat-devel/2011-February/thread.html 9: Would people mind if it was more of a 1HR podcast than 30 minute exposition? We diverged off the bufferbloat/wireless topic several times, in interesting ways, and editing it down will take more time than I would like. -- Dave Taht http://nex-6.taht.net