From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.toke.dk (mail.toke.dk [IPv6:2001:470:dc45:1000::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD6893B260 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:40:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.toke.dk (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56910D37A; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 18:40:18 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=toke.dk; s=20161023; t=1480354818; bh=Y1uq41GpdHYEeiPV0Mikmr+ec23cJjs1qgVvG4BDQyc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=F0xFdPkkO6lFddULlMH3LOl5HLBRhXLEi9f7HJ7QarhunWqWKKs/LRgR0+EAmHWYB DWh2VsMzrD9sAi+DiWNQGJMiKAoYjq92j4rwOzhzmH79oY1F4ZKknJEBSAbhRNNu98 g1DvImUg20SNJ+1ngxojVwpofxZbXoplbVRct4BWAOpdkHR11C7asT3vxYarG6vEVf 5MIpK+46QkUtC6rGCPSFfhIJDNi8MsR5tE7H2fnJoAnTEgbUCnWRjbDmhu9I955lIW luJwaXZRybSK7naUSQmBo4NXa+a+yOs5mzDXtUoHsVKA5WKmk/4/Bmx8Ixg2+lWWkF FpSTsbuT0v5SA== Received: by alrua-karlstad.karlstad.toke.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 32A1795F2CD; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 18:40:18 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: Jonathan Foulkes Cc: Dave Taht , bloat References: Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 18:40:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Jonathan Foulkes's message of "Mon, 28 Nov 2016 12:16:35 -0500") X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: <87fumbqz99.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] COTS router with OpenWrt X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 17:40:19 -0000 Jonathan Foulkes writes: > Hi Dave, a special thanks to you for all the cheerleading and pushing you= do on this topic. > >> I hope that your marketing campaign is being successful on these >> fronts. It has always been my goal to "enable better products", but >> not have the headache of making them myself, where 99.99% of the >> effort is (like in cerowrt), in making everything else "just work" and >> be reliable enough to ship. > > I haven=E2=80=99t ramped up the marketing in a big way yet, but what I am > doing is quite effective (e.g. click through metrics are 5 to 10x the > norm); what=E2=80=99s been most astonishing is the word of mouth spread. > > Yes, lots of effort in having a reliable, supportable product.=20 > > As you can see from the site, my messaging has been focused on regular > end users, using terminology they can hopefully grasp (I get accused > of both being too technical and not technical enough, so maybe I got > it right ;-) > > One area of messaging that I believe members of this list could > provide input on is around how to get people to understand that > =E2=80=98speed=E2=80=99 (line capacity) is not everything. I keep looking= for ways to > address that and wrote a short post on it: > http://evenroute.com/the-last-50-feet/quick-vs-fast Well, there's Stuart's classic rant from two decades ago (which is on the technical side): http://www.stuartcheshire.org/rants/Latency.html On the less technical side, there's this video from the RITE project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DF1a-eMF9xdY And this one that nicely showcases latency, but then draws the wrong conclusion (that you need more bandwidth to fix it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D_fNp37zFn9Q -Toke