From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F7F421F73E for ; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 04:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56100) with ESMTP id t5QB5fx0029311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:05:41 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/56228) with ESMTP id t5QB5fwq014661; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:05:41 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1893561FA2; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:05:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id vnzAzjM-fTpk; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:05:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9440C61FA1; Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:05:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:05:39 +0200 Message-ID: <87fv5eafwc.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <40204878-C1F4-4AFE-8FD8-72D0B83144FE@gmail.com> References: <81564C0D7D4D2A4B9A86C8C7404A13DA34B30B4C@ESESSMB205.ericsson.se> <04ED8D23-53C3-4F12-9647-3A07FFB43352@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <40204878-C1F4-4AFE-8FD8-72D0B83144FE@gmail.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:05:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Fri, 26 Jun 2015 13:05:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 558D3205.014 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 558D3205.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 558D3205.014 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 558D3205.001 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 558D3205.014 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 558D3205.001 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Cc: "cheshire@apple.com" , "iccrg@irtf.org" , "Bob Briscoe \(bob.briscoe@bt.com\)" , Ingemar Johansson S , Mirja =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=FChlewind?= , "bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "ietf@trammell.ch" Subject: Re: [Bloat] ECN issues X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:06:41 -0000 > The conventional wisdom certainly is that ECN should be left off simple > 1-RTT request-response protocols, Just to avoid any misunderstandings: - Babel does not use ECN; the marking is due to Dave's local hack; - Babel is an asynchronous protocol that runs (mostly) over multicast, not a request-response protocol, so there's no obvious way to carry an echo bit in it; - Babel is designed to work well over extremely lossy links (with the standard implementation working reasonably well at 85% pre-ARQ loss). [Shouldn't we be dropping people from the CC?] -- Juliusz