From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail2.tohojo.dk (mail2.tohojo.dk [77.235.48.147]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F59E21F225 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 03:32:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail2.tohojo.dk Sender: toke@toke.dk DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=toke.dk; s=201310; t=1430130736; bh=A16K23paOrku34ZteZy73MdCGIcjPsXlbZCc05Eacys=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=WkhEsYKBpAj/XVo/PGT3wgHkUXfQaYANCxjiprvmZHVoqTGLx6vhp3YvxnEQVaaWA dB2UvhhHsIwPpRGfpCxupQmGIRfTSa5QcEdPG0myLdcJG9txc35EhSX2reBHikrEZI CZc/RA5Hi+YPCx5EKurguclH8v2zLDLVpTq3dzQg= Received: by alrua-kau.kau.toke.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7CA9AC40134; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 12:32:15 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: Neil Davies References: <87r3r53ncb.fsf@toke.dk> <04A0C729-6E87-49C6-84F7-3428F236CA15@unimore.it> <3DC1A2EA-6DDD-4FF9-AD12-BB509EFB96B8@unimore.it> <30560030-8A86-481D-A310-B3B72C26C368@pnsol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 12:32:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: <30560030-8A86-481D-A310-B3B72C26C368@pnsol.com> (Neil Davies's message of "Mon, 27 Apr 2015 11:26:16 +0100") X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: <87fv7l3lqo.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] Detecting bufferbloat from outside a node X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 10:32:52 -0000 Neil Davies writes: > You are asking about the epistemology! Good start. The only things you > can =E2=80=9Cknow=E2=80=9D outside the node are the things you can observ= e. You can > infer, from the characteristics of the observations, conformance to > some avowed model of behaviour. If we're going all philosophy of science on this, I'll add that the nice thing about networking is that the computers attached to it can give us some very specific measurements and we can (with care) provoke quite specific behaviour to reason about the performance. Try asking a biologist about the interactions between the life cycle of parasitic species, their hosts and the ecosystem they live in! :) -Toke