From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-bk0-x232.google.com (mail-bk0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4008:c01::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D682200619 for ; Sun, 8 Dec 2013 13:05:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-bk0-f50.google.com with SMTP id e11so1072925bkh.9 for ; Sun, 08 Dec 2013 13:05:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=AzQPedat7O9CWB/ezXo5lugh6iVWpuXj1G38XTFIGjQ=; b=LkvheYhHZl1wX5XVjj8+9JTh1egtgMF/FKNJ8QDRKtW6D6MXA807hC0ZzbLK5G5+cn HIFIS8ikSBWV50t6+g9fylEnXLDkJ0+wiwcA9eAq2oFtTZAsnU0aTNezT9khETNANLP6 8YK2VNSk67MAjfzPmzHoRGuqfXCX2k3Evk8IGU8vXJxZvA0NpOIXbkVLYStay/umzKQD rxA/XUZ+UvRDfq7+s2OYKUiu+DUBp7pJqA7IArpHtMPt5+sKuFeNr34qj/YsaTVSo68s 7TYu7en2Pu+OAmRRLVk5HOz7Os7ZDcG2zSv3CwN9qNMlX05x9lNkyaXVsx0vv55ER75J tatw== X-Received: by 10.204.100.9 with SMTP id w9mr536683bkn.131.1386536735189; Sun, 08 Dec 2013 13:05:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from bass.home.chromatix.fi (37-136-100-238.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi. [37.136.100.238]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a4sm6435020bko.11.2013.12.08.13.05.25 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 08 Dec 2013 13:05:34 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <87txejb50t.wl%jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 23:05:20 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <89F37336-9E03-4580-A90C-F9E01ABE9A14@gmail.com> References: <20131203222559.GV8066@einstein.kenyonralph.com> <7ieh5pew2d.wl%jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87haakx1ev.wl%jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <20131208012751.GA6382@sesse.net> <878uvvcwqh.wl%jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87txejb50t.wl%jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> To: Juliusz Chroboczek X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] curious..... X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2013 21:05:37 -0000 On 8 Dec, 2013, at 7:56 pm, Juliusz Chroboczek wrote: >> Notably it seems few have internalized what the "sparse stream" >> optimization does for things like voip. >=20 > We're waiting with held breath until you care to enlighten us ;-) I think I know what he's talking about. This is where a packet arriving = for an empty queue will be prioritised over packets waiting at the head = of queues - but a flag will be set on that empty queue to ensure that it = only happens once per cycle. That reduces latency for stuff that isn't = a bulk data flow. The trouble is that if there's a sufficiently large number of congested = flows (eg. BitTorrent) that VoIP's "fair share" is less than what it = needs, that optimisation is disabled and VoIP stops working - unless it = can detect and adapt to a lower bandwidth, or unless it is classified = and managed as distinct from bulk data. - Jonathan Morton