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[192.195.83.200]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l11sm89031992pfb.28.2016.11.28.10.58.16 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Nov 2016 10:58:16 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Simon Barber In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 10:58:14 -0800 Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8A0CE391-C77E-4B3F-B2B0-7F9FDDB8DFCF@superduper.net> References: <836b6c89-d7a0-49e1-e1b4-8e98b9263c1d@pollere.com> To: davecb@spamcop.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Subject: Re: [Bloat] How to "sell" improvement X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 18:58:18 -0000 Web page load time. Simon > On Nov 28, 2016, at 10:37 AM, David Collier-Brown = wrote: >=20 > In this context, I'd say latency and the effect of bloat reduction on = it and transfer time. >=20 > Dave Taht can say much more (;-)) > I'm just echoing his concern, from the point of view of a capacity = planner. >=20 > --dave c-b > [I'm using latency as the time from the request to the first response, = transfer time as the time from the first response to the last response, = which may be 0, and sleep/think time as the time from the last response = to the next request, for a given stream of requests and responses, AKA = "transactions"] >=20 >=20 > On 28/11/16 12:59 PM, Kathleen Nichols wrote: >> That's a good idea in general, but what are you measuring for your >> "actual performance"? >> Raw throughput? Goodput (which requires a bit of processing)? Then = what >> about delay? >>=20 >> On 11/28/16 9:41 AM, David Collier-Brown wrote: >>> Put the speed-test /into the router/, with a big red button to turn >>> fq_codel on and off. >>>=20 >>> * The performance reporting graphs can then run on a browser page >>> for as long as you like, while you do other things, and go back to >>> the page and see what it's been like. * Have a line for "perfect" >>> performance, and anyone can see how close you're system is coming to >>> it. * Have a button for a synthetic load test, of some shortish >>> duration, and, * Put it on normal Linux hosts too, so you can test >>> end-to-end. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> This has the advantage that it's code-first, so you don't have to >>> convince the uninterested, and from it you can write a small and >>> limited RFC to tell everyone else how you did it. >>>=20 >>> As each new improvement comes along, actual performance slowly gets >>> closer and closer to the optimal performance line... >>>=20 >>> --dave >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 28/11/16 10:21 AM, Jonathan Foulkes wrote: >>>> Thanks for the Introduction Rich, and thanks again to you and many >>>> others on this list for all your contributions over the years >>>> helping to combat bloat. >>>>=20 >>>> This product was born of my own frustration with finding a way to >>>> help neighbors and family get a simple off-the-shelf solution that >>>> even non-technical users can deploy. >>>>=20 >>>> I look forward to participating more actively on this list. >>>>=20 >>>> Jonathan >>>>=20 >>>>> On Nov 26, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Rich Brown >>>>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> I have been exchanging a few emails with Jonathan Foulkes from >>>>> evenroute.com. He tells me that his company is installing OpenWrt >>>>> on a commercial, off the shelf (COTS) TP-Link router and selling >>>>> them on commercially. His "secret sauce" is an auto-update >>>>> facility and improved setup software, which includes a >>>>> rate-detection step that operates continually to adjust the >>>>> fq_codel parameters to the actual line rate. You can take a look >>>>> at IQrouter.com, or look them up on Amazon. >>>>>=20 >>>>> This might be a solution to our current conundrum about not >>>>> having an easy solution that solves our family's networking >>>>> problem. I'm going to get one of these and try it out. >>>>>=20 >>>>> He has been following our bufferbloat and make-fifi-fast work >>>>> closely, as well as the work on LEDE, which he'll consider once >>>>> it hits a stable point. I have invited him to join this list. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Welcome, Jonathan. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list >>>> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >>>=20 >>> -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify >>> System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest >>> davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list >>> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >>>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >=20 >=20 > --=20 > David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify > System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest > davecb@spamcop.net | -- Mark Twain >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat