From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout-xforward.gmx.net (mout-xforward.gmx.net [82.165.159.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86FC83B29D for ; Tue, 9 Nov 2021 08:23:04 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1636464182; bh=8C0353H2jIf2eMAl/wR/amabF3blNLtKQgFg1IokF54=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=XZsa8W6cXKo62+v80Xf8JQ4z4JUwP2/aBYQnWrfUhLnTXiDrJ8YuvfOE2EgutUSb3 BCVI+ls+gX+Ugv+xjfSHmlrnhLb7Wjjzz0uruXRWQCZSIu/ERmBy4nOQWp+ogZuvt7 9InMCy5CMfbTBfRJZ096/0k2tmSfoovE63BSltpg= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MgNct-1mEO3V2tSB-00hxAl; Tue, 09 Nov 2021 14:23:02 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2021 14:23:02 +0100 Cc: bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8C299F42-B9A9-4446-8FE0-4E24BAA71323@gmx.de> References: To: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:G/aJYIUX2bgR7SmQEHBNqm0+Cnp+i0wodj2cM/dJCA1UtMy9iNs 00vWthnIUkEw0bxrUJrsn0ewKc5Hd+66PNaov+EnarlAeotRSh/oBU7+SAxDZG7XPlYUucI zltDBX2kEnn++sU9xNezgicflpOcfHgTiq6TjlNhGhMvqsmv2gYITksm1eRZ20m2J+gPcoq rozgtmBB7ZKOTQqIovZDQ== X-Spam-Flag: YES X-UI-Out-Filterresults: junk:10;V03:K0:vDcWoao12YQ=:OqiSxNAkHyn8UFgPA27SV+QK OB98Ii4FKBfR9s7ROoDSKr3Fg+CB1K4ZsMt8Ys5HY/m7/MVKmvrOhTqtp0zUgbc/hI7OhrSen bA/DXxWsyXrJKio1X6Aoa1ydvOdG1UVM/HudG0rqyiuW8R0k5NvkS0I2hOHXKRGIHMnezx2Oy CE4eTolrh8Wc5QcnQtPsCavIgXkezH+1b1IKVQ6KMWnbyd1bMg110BdXjCxLzPfqI9XfDXQWw KBGfnyzkg9xdyd3nHfPpo1Cx4VfmCyWhQsAgebDtJNQLvF2WWuXPBcd+V8IH9P2yVBvHSx4iF p2LggnvA5nerhQe8ZJ4WrfNiWurAd1GSnYRh3xOdVVTUvYvlQKDdylGZd0gQ6SqIsdNNfQ0B/ 5TbG2i3xBXSdAFVfP/rGXk7B2liRZoDU+ed43CnuLfX48Znga526/R/uhzabC9SIfBN0M24uU xunS9R0PFxaLQZchP4JC2IQFDy+A29GYLikujtx/H5MyfIyYX3FrxF/34TvErgDWT5aKL6PKO DExW51hQf5298HjycZYj1+4z4PW0fj+44cvqHqV4OtGatsaj27ZPDsA1FMzUCDx+JGGS06vE3 1dq+y/zDGXbcHhDfJW8agMcLIbOWRT2S2KfGX7aGZDvwW0L43ni/6MY34uLuWfWqipjLAy2UQ uZxGcVQBRI8bI1/INomcKOHQAHQqc6Hipznw+KLcIogU114JPcE0n2TtkqyGrp0e5hLkVom9i M+fvKnGxdj3B/V/tj8mzLL5Hw5sGI3EQFwzHn2EI2l3nCZ7EHcdr9C6MdEcpJKQ2S4b8zxymt HdlSW1lUqvk7IQ3Ax+7Vs7niwcT7flDWJ805PDL9h6jFjJjetn7BuwAtwLNN++K4iBpw4rVX2 aYOmrqs0y5L1kM8PDZ0rK4yr3I6KpRGTgGDa8pSR34UBJcKBWaUxniw9c0o+L4FRccZ+WHMBq /JBLER4P+ZVbJsa3YGj05/yiovJezawsOMiJVzRbEW9UWIHTxWu/2fc6Nf0CVF2Nsj75RF7ur GEIgYLwrIcK06A4Yf/sByzwoZVnzPXx54Y8GVyt1XXcEn16nlpZGAIA8ZPRnaIUJTONCNJ5gT MizGJMXF5cW1G788DMv7SCXzB02y1ITBqxo/24q4xAyeZqh8PoWJe0oQvqvtRG3yUUYMEOgcu r3mHiQ6GJGtR1hRRpTMybQkOmN/mmvWB4rHPGzH6DPSvQTpKIoTWAv1jL21D4WdTBle0ORaH0 ORMdf98ybYJ+vMU Subject: Re: [Bloat] what is xgspon? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2021 13:23:04 -0000 XGS-PON is one of the >> 1Gbps successor technologies for GPON. GPON = typically is asymmetric with ~2.4/1.2 Gbps "segment capacity" (but as = far as I understand the ITU standard also allows symmetric 2.4/2.4 = GPON). XG-PON ups the "ceiling" to a marketing-friendly 10Gbps, and = XGS-PON makes that symmetric, for 10/10, and it does so fully backward = compatible with GPON (by using different wavelength) so the same PON can = have (different) users with XGS-PON and GPON, albeit the CPE are = currently either GPON or XGS-PON and the at the head end one obviously = needs two different illumination sources as well. As far as I can tell = both use a request-grant mechanism to coordinate the CPE in egress = direction (towards the OLT) but the cycle time is < 1ms IIRC. ITU = standards documents are no joy to read (and everything appears to my = naive mind quite baroque), so I probably am overlooking things and = grossly simplifying others.... Ad an end-user I would welcome a switch = from DOCSIS to XGSPON (not that I use either, still on 100/40 VDSL2, but = I could switch to 1000/50 DOCSIS if I wanted*), but I am sure the devil = is in the details and it will be possible to spoil true fiber as well. I note that in France and Switzerland**, ISPs already offer XGS-PON = links to end-users... in a PON of up to 32 CPE, they offer each user = pans up to 10Gbps, they clearly assume that no one is going to either = saturate that long enough to be noticeable or that most people will not = care (given how hard it is going tp be tp saturate that with normal use = cases). Given that pool of existing users maybe we can find some to run = flent tests? *) But I do not want to, I am not convinced my potentialcable ISPs has = truly thought about how to operate its segments well "at capacity" but = ever since rolling-up the local market with cheap gigabit (1000/50 for = ~40EUR/month) cable segments are prone to overload during primetime. **) In Switzerland one ISP (Init7) even offers symmetric 25/25 Gbps = (Fiber7-X2: 25G SFP28 BIDI LR, TX1270/RX1330 nm) as active optical = network (25GBASE-LR ethernet), for 777/12 =3D 64.75 SFR/month (plus = 333SFR set-up cost covering the upstream optics and additionally the own = CPE). > On Nov 9, 2021, at 13:57, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > I know there is one form of PON that has enormous (and unfixible) > potential for bufferbloat, another that doesn't, and other tech like > mpls that can also muddy the issue. Does anyone "get", > comprehensively, where the fiber market is going? >=20 > = https://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Speed/Is-DOCSIS-PIE-enabled-per-speci= fication-on-VM/m-p/4861693#M281139 >=20 > --=20 > I tried to build a better future, a few times: > https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org >=20 > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat