From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.lang.hm (syn-045-059-245-186.biz.spectrum.com [45.59.245.186]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33C9E3B29E for ; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 12:01:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dlang-mobile (unknown [10.2.3.133]) by mail.lang.hm (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B0501DC659; Sun, 18 Aug 2024 09:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 09:01:00 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lang To: Dave Taht cc: Jan Ceuleers , bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9r15noro-s0n7-r264-qs1r-8psqp6s52oso@ynat.uz> References: <93639364-6937-4EE6-B218-2A02AF212362@gmail.com> <66c3c9fe-da65-443e-b188-c81adf13f73a@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="===============0791393147594972578==" Subject: Re: [Bloat] Looking for a citation... X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 16:01:01 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --===============0791393147594972578== Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Also, the highest wifi speeds are only achievable with build traffic to a single client (or with mu-mimo to a small number of clients), it's not that with n clients, each gets anywhere close to 1/n bandwith. And if you add a single slower device to the network, it will eat much more airtime than it's bandwidth would indicate. David Lang On Sun, 18 Aug 2024, Dave Taht via Bloat wrote: > Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 08:47:02 -0700 > From: Dave Taht via Bloat > Reply-To: Dave Taht > To: Jan Ceuleers > Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > Subject: Re: [Bloat] Looking for a citation... > > Actually I feel that at speeds greater than *50*Mbits, most of the bloat > moves to the wifi, but perhaps I should qualify it more, Modern wifi can do > almost 2gbits a few feet from the AP, but still has a dynamic range of > 5Mbit to 2gbit. Interference, contention, range, all factor into when you > hit a FIFO "cliff", and stay there. > > I wish I knew how many commercial APs outside of eero, cisco meraki, > gfiber, and starlink have adopted fq_codel. Certainly I am pleased as punch > at openwrt's adoption. And seeing at least a few fiber folk shipping better > wifi. > > Moreso, if only more vendors did a RvRvlatency test like: > http://flent-newark.bufferbloat.net/~d/Airtime%20based%20queue%20limit%20for%20FQ_CoDel%20in%20wireless%20interface.pdf > > A hugely mitigating factor is people self adapting to move closer to the AP > (or mesh), another is most traffic never cracks 20 mbit for very long. > > I am sad that every coffee shop I frequent save one, has horrible > bufferbloat, but it usually only shows up when you try to do s > videoconference. > > > > On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 8:32 AM Jan Ceuleers via Bloat < > bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> On 18/08/2024 11:08, Rich Brown via Bloat wrote: >>> In various posts, I have baldly asserted that "above 300-500mbps ISP >> links, all the bufferbloat moves into the Wi-Fi." >>> >>> I am pretty sure that I someone on these lists stated that as fact. >>> >>> Could I get a link to a discussion that is definitive? Or a statement >> that is actually true that I can incorporate into my future posts? Many >> thanks. >> >> Quite evidently there are WiFi access points and clients available whose >> speeds exceed 500 Mbit/s, so in order to be able to make such a claim >> one would need to know the extent to which those newer WiFi technologies >> are not yet deployed. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Bloat mailing list >> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >> > > > --===============0791393147594972578== Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: <15qs5qsr-8s63-0ss6-3431-s71nr0p28r7r@ynat.uz> Content-Description: Content-Disposition: INLINE X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KQmxvYXQgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0CkJsb2F0QGxpc3RzLmJ1ZmZlcmJsb2F0Lm5ldApodHRwczovL2xpc3RzLmJ1ZmZl cmJsb2F0Lm5ldC9saXN0aW5mby9ibG9hdAo= --===============0791393147594972578==--