From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.lang.hm (unknown [66.167.227.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB64D3B29D for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 09:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dlang-mobile (unknown [10.2.2.70]) by mail.lang.hm (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07B7151DBF; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 06:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 06:21:32 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lang To: David Collier-Brown cc: David Lang , bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: <5913d36b-b957-28e2-ed6a-2bca0ff4d8e7@rogers.com> Message-ID: <9s3n0625-9qq4-6qr3-0r0o-n113q3p809pn@ynat.uz> References: <80605c63a44d367a1cb0222f5c0012e5@swift.generated> <94f7f5f2-8130-0d7c-63b1-11da1bc956fc@rogers.com> <95955sq2-s027-0583-0qpr-qr0342351745@ynat.uz> <5913d36b-b957-28e2-ed6a-2bca0ff4d8e7@rogers.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="228850167-623505591-1666444892=:15285" Subject: Re: [Bloat] Fwd: Broadband Bias X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 13:21:34 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --228850167-623505591-1666444892=:15285 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT especially when all the rates are 'up to' David Lang On Sat, 22 Oct 2022, David Collier-Brown wrote: > Yes, I'd tend to flatten my prices unless I could show end-user customers a > really easy-to-detect improvement from the high-speed offerings. > > My across-the-road neighbor was talked into upgrading by Bell Canada to a > higher-priced package, and ended up in a 'spirited discussion" about whether > they were /obtaining money from him upon a false and fraudulent pretense/ > (;-)) > > --dave > > On 10/22/22 09:02, David Lang wrote: >> long distance phone plans used to be tiered as well, nobody misses those >> days. >> >> eliminating tiers could just mean that people are getting the best service >> available in their area (the car analogy they are trying to use breaks down >> because you can't get Porsche service in a location with Chevy >> infrastructure) >> >> IMHO, flattening tiers is good as it gives the ISPs more incentive to use >> the tools that we've developed here to prevent the traffic from one >> individual from interefering with the traffic for another, making life >> better for everyone. >> >> David Lang >> >> >>  On Sat, 22 Oct 2022, David Collier-Brown via Bloat wrote: >> >>> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 08:56:14 -0400 >>> From: David Collier-Brown via Bloat >>> Reply-To: David Collier-Brown >>> To: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> Subject: [Bloat] Fwd: Broadband Bias >>> >>> Here's an interesting "rantlet" on inequity in price and service by big >>> ISPs, which of course makes me wonder >>> >>> * if end-users fixing bloat is enough to mitigate lack of IS investment >>> * if the markup's research team should be talking to the speed-test >>>   sites to collect actual-performance and observed bandwidth data >>> >>> >>> --dave >>> >>> reference:https://themarkup.org/show-your-work/2022/10/19/how-we-uncovered-disparities-in-internet-deals >>> >>> >>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>> Subject:     Broadband Bias >>> Date:     Sat, 22 Oct 2022 12:02:07 +0000 >>> From:     Julia Angwin >>> To: davecb@spamcop.net >>> >>> >>> >>> Broadband Bias >>> Poorer and less White neighborhoods get slower speeds >>> Hello World >>> Hello World >>> Dispatches from our founder >>> >>> Hello World >>> >>> >>> This Week >>> Broadband Bias >>> >>> Hello, friends, >>> Imagine shopping for a car and being told that every car on the lot is >>> being offered for the same price, but you don’t get to choose which car >>> you’ll get. The dealership decides if you walk out with a Porsche or a >>> Chevy. >>> That’s how some internet pricing in the U.S. works. Most home internet >>> plans are offered at a flat base rate, ranging from $40 to $60 a month, >>> but what you get for that price varies widely, according to a new Markup >>> investigation >>> that >>> was published this week. >>> Reporters Leon Yin and Aaron Sankin analyzed more than 800,000 broadband >>> plans >>> offered >>> across the U.S. from AT&T, Verizon, EarthLink, and CenturyLink, and found >>> that the speeds they offered varied from more than 200 megabits per second >>> (Mbps) in some neighborhoods to below 25 Mbps in others. >>> To put that in simple terms: 200 megabits per second is the recommended >>> minimum speed for a household that wants to participate in multiple >>> concurrent Zoom calls without interruption. Anything below 25 Mbps is not >>> even considered broadband by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). >>> Calculated by price per megabit, that means customers are paying hugely >>> different prices for the same service. For example, CenturyLink offered >>> consumers rates that ranged from 25 cents to  $100 per Mbps—which is 400 >>> times greater. >>> Chart: Providers offer different speeds for the same price. >>> >>> And guess which neighborhoods generally got the worst speeds? >>> Lower-income, historically redlined areas that were less White. >>> In 92 percent of cities in our investigation where broadband speeds >>> varied, lower-income neighborhoods disproportionately received worse >>> deals. In 66 percent of cities, people of color disproportionately >>> received worse deals. And in 100 percent of cities where data was >>> available, historically redlined neighborhoods received worse deals. >>> Map: In most cities, poorer neighborhoods were offered worse internet >>> plans more often. >>> >>> The amazing thing is that the speed disparities are probably even worse >>> than what we found. We calculated these numbers based on the speeds that >>> the companies /advertised/on their websites, not the speeds that were >>> actually delivered. And as anyone who uses the internet knows, speeds are >>> often quite different from what is advertised >>> —and >>> usually not in a good way. >>> The telecom companies defended their practices. Mark Molzen, a >>> spokesperson for CenturyLink’s parent company Lumen, said, “We do not >>> engage in discriminatory practices like redlining and find the accusation >>> offensive.” >>> AT&T spokesperson Jim Greer said that The Markup’s analysis had ignored >>> the company’s low-cost access offerings and participation in the FCC’s >>> Affordable Connectivity Plan, which provides a subsidy for household >>> Internet bills. “Any suggestion that we discriminate in providing internet >>> access is blatantly wrong,” he said. >>> Verizon spokesperson Rich Young referred inquiries to the industry group >>> USTelecom, which said that internet providers can have good reasons to >>> charge the same price for slower service. “Operating and maintaining >>> legacy technologies can be more expensive, especially as legacy network >>> components are discontinued by equipment manufacturers,” said USTelecom >>> senior vice president Marie Johnson. >>> The findings come at a time when U.S. regulators are looking into >>> broadband equity. The FCC is currently drafting rules >>> “to >>> promote equal access to broadband across the country, regardless of income >>> level, ethnicity, race, religion, or national origin.” >>> Broadband pricing wasn’t always this way. Companies used to charge >>> different prices for different speeds, in what were called “tiers.” But in >>> recent years, they have moved toward a single price in what the National >>> Digital Inclusion Alliance called in a 2018 report “tier flattening >>> .” >>> Unlike buying a car, however, it’s hard for broadband customers to know >>> that they are getting a Chevy and not a Porsche when they pay that single, >>> tier-flattened price. >>> To buy broadband, you must enter your address into one of the telecoms’ >>> websites to see the price, speed, and availability. Very few people are >>> likely to enter other addresses into the site to compare speeds that their >>> neighbors are getting—and even if they do, they aren’t likely to be able >>> to convince the company to lower their rate. >>> This lack of transparency means that the companies have been able to hide >>> the stark disparities from public view. It took Leon and Aaron months of >>> work to scrape all the prices from company websites, then match them with >>> Census records to analyze which neighborhoods were getting which prices. >>> It’s hard work, but it’s the important work that journalists must do to >>> make these hidden disparities visible to the public. >>> As always, thanks for reading. >>> Best, >>> Julia Angwin >>> The Markup >>> /(Additional Hello World research by Eve Zelickson.)/ >>> >>> https://mrkp-static-production.themarkup.org/uploads/2021/11/support_woman_16-9-1280x720.jpg >>> >>> Support The Markup >>> Your donations power our award-winning reporting and our tools. Together >>> we can do more. Give now. >>> Donate Here >>> >>> This email doesn’t track you when you open it or click on any links. To >>> learn more read our Privacy Policy . >>> In order to unsubscribe, click here >>> . >>> If you were forwarded this newsletter and you like it, you can subscribe >>> here . >>> The Markup - PO Box 1103, New York, New York, 10159, United States of >>> America > --228850167-623505591-1666444892=:15285--