From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-out01.uio.no (mail-out01.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36D593CB40 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 03:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail-mx12.uio.no ([129.240.10.84]) by mail-out01.uio.no with esmtps (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1o1juT-0084pn-8R; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:27:21 +0200 Received: from [185.176.244.72] (helo=smtpclient.apple) by mail-mx12.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) user michawe (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1o1juR-000854-PR; Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:27:21 +0200 From: Michael Welzl Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D471B615-EAF0-465C-848C-26BF403A5A3C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.100.31\)) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 09:27:19 +0200 In-Reply-To: <0E865241-B9DF-4383-A99B-4C6BA1D1C467@gmx.de> Cc: Dave Taht , bloat To: Sebastian Moeller References: <580DF947-1160-405C-9019-0A6CD8FC49A3@ifi.uio.no> <0E865241-B9DF-4383-A99B-4C6BA1D1C467@gmx.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.100.31) X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: neutral (mail-mx12.uio.no: 185.176.244.72 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of ifi.uio.no) client-ip=185.176.244.72; envelope-from=michawe@ifi.uio.no; helo=smtpclient.apple; X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5) X-UiO-Scanned: 341154CE4FFECD9810925E2A91932E59C8B10B85 X-UiOonly: 288139F0AD100892149C7C7F6239A74A0490277E Subject: Re: [Bloat] the future of tcp - train wreck or evolution? X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 07:27:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D471B615-EAF0-465C-848C-26BF403A5A3C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jun 16, 2022, at 9:22 AM, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >=20 > HI MIchael, >=20 >=20 >> On Jun 16, 2022, at 07:48, Michael Welzl via Bloat = > = wrote: >>=20 >> =E2=80=A6 but I=E2=80=99m excited about slide 15 ! >>=20 >> "Heat, CO2, and radioactive waste are becoming measurable by-products = of TCP inefficiency >> Fix TCP =3D> Save the World!=E2=80=9D >>=20 >> People don=E2=80=99t yet focus enough on this - >=20 > The slide deck however omits presenting the evidence for that = hypothesis... >=20 >=20 >=20 >> and it=E2=80=99s not only relevant in a data center context. See = also: >>=20 >> Michael Welzl: "Not a Trade-Off: On the Wi-Fi Energy Efficiency of = Effective Internet Congestion Control", IEEE/IFIP WONS 2022, virtual, 30 = March - 1 April 2022. >> Preprint: = https://folk.universitetetioslo.no/michawe/research/publications/wons2022_= authors_version.pdf = >>=20 >> A couple of IETFs ago, I did sign up to present something along these = lines at an ICCRG meeting, but I asked late and got squeezed into an = =E2=80=9Cif time permits=E2=80=9D slot; some day in the future I=E2=80=99l= l ask for a =E2=80=9Cproper slot=E2=80=9D to elaborate on this. >=20 > Curious, should such an observation not look at the aggregate = energy consumption of senders and receivers? And maybe also report the = total energy consumption of those devices for reference to allow an = estimate of how much "radioactive waste" can be easily avoided? > Mind you, I am not arguing that saving energy (even small = amounts) is not desirable, I just want to see how that stacks up with = the total energy consumed by those systems. I completely agree - one just needs to start somewhere. Baby steps :)=20= Cheers, Michael --Apple-Mail=_D471B615-EAF0-465C-848C-26BF403A5A3C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Jun 16, 2022, at 9:22 AM, Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> = wrote:

HI MIchael,


On Jun 16, 2022, at 07:48, Michael = Welzl via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

=E2=80=A6 but I=E2=80=99m excited about slide 15 !

"Heat, CO2, and radioactive waste are becoming = measurable by-products of TCP inefficiency
Fix TCP =3D> = Save the World!=E2=80=9D

People don=E2=80=99t= yet focus enough on this -

The slide = deck however omits presenting the evidence for that = hypothesis...



and = it=E2=80=99s not only relevant in a data center context. See also:

Michael Welzl: "Not a Trade-Off: On the Wi-Fi = Energy Efficiency of Effective Internet Congestion Control", IEEE/IFIP = WONS 2022, virtual, 30 March - 1 April 2022.
Preprint: https://folk.universitetetioslo.no/michawe/research/publication= s/wons2022_authors_version.pdf

A couple = of IETFs ago, I did sign up to present something along these lines at an = ICCRG meeting, but I asked late and got squeezed into an =E2=80=9Cif = time permits=E2=80=9D slot; some day in the future I=E2=80=99ll ask for = a =E2=80=9Cproper slot=E2=80=9D to elaborate on this.

= Curious, = should such an observation not look at the aggregate energy consumption = of senders and receivers? And maybe also report the total energy = consumption of those devices for reference to allow an estimate of how = much "radioactive waste" can be easily avoided?
Mind you, I = am not arguing that saving energy (even small amounts) is not desirable, = I just want to see how that stacks up with the total energy consumed by = those systems.

I completely agree - one just needs to start = somewhere. Baby steps  :) 

Cheers,
Michael

= --Apple-Mail=_D471B615-EAF0-465C-848C-26BF403A5A3C--