From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BF2B3B29D for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:05:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from resomta-po-14v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.238]) by resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id PpselQMn9fSZqPrlglnYYg; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:05:12 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20180828_2048; t=1616785512; bh=ffsEQ0Di36HvpY7I0j3LvECM1800Mn26jJTReNwyayg=; h=Received:Received:Received:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=oNqJaRAvjatQeVXAuD8wIhJjB0u7xu+eEeZP7hqzyaSksBtUzsHBRqjD2v7X2T6N/ UMYtAn3o7jaPE1Q9NEQr7RWc1TX0rAD0fRwkx+egsP+bzXbTaqWpiUeSXsFBPbZ8yj 9T7N/YYBCTlivJ/+C/rLHSpBRdsh3jRK/GL7MzXFW9m8HpWAceibbeOL+cWj0Jm5ZE KgB8L5CK/lF5Xn5Tl2rMEFxr2YDg/jbif9Uo8tztf8+6mHtMCzjToYWMSNTxTn1YnQ z9YYZe1ZgpP6sOqOh3vNF+zy/ZL2Ss5j7fG8mIrCR13LGA49On/BzePXFigr34lDR4 uid8TTjvT/JOw== Received: from home.sewingwitch.com ([IPv6:2601:644:881:42b0::3f1]) by resomta-po-14v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id Prldl9VxBq8J6PrlglDdRN; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:05:12 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0.00;st=legit Received: from [10.96.7.39] ([10.96.7.39]) (authenticated bits=0) by home.sewingwitch.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 12QJ4qPa025224 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2021 12:04:57 -0700 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 home.sewingwitch.com 12QJ4qPa025224 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sewingwitch.com; s=default; t=1616785497; bh=ffsEQ0Di36HvpY7I0j3LvECM1800Mn26jJTReNwyayg=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=qVsDaiN8hXuZCu9BPsNjemkbC/c3ntxg2UssQSB75S6uoaVujN2hVw+Y/5PMWCm81 lpA21hMfAlc4iadfi8tZFcGaHmkQQfH+X9hctTMAhpYJH6zHAjiWCZbZkSRu3vkHFU ssTLV8zW/ar0NAYpwDcTE0mOgLfx/sbH1p31CJT4= Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 12:04:51 -0700 From: Kenneth Porter To: bloat Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a3 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; size=734 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.96.0.132 Subject: Re: [Bloat] fcc input X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:05:14 -0000 --On Friday, March 26, 2021 10:58 AM -0700 Aaron Wood wrote: > I'm still surprised at how hard it is to get people to understand that the > problem they're having (especially with real-time video like Zoom) isn't > bandwidth, but jitter and bloat... Speed is easy to understand. I see a similar issue with space travel fans, who have trouble grasping how acceleration, not velocity, is the important factor in that domain. And when velocity is a factor, it's the vector, not the scalar, that counts. If only people got decent math educations.... Jitter and bloat aren't intuitive and need a lot more thinking and patience to understand. Perhaps we need a good animated cartoon to explain it.