From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt0-x229.google.com (mail-qt0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A1FF3B2A2 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 06:59:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-qt0-x229.google.com with SMTP id n6so9140261qtd.1 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 03:59:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=edmison-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IUtLJrexeGplSyl7o3q+S+omaXxFo4s+W5o3p02YR7w=; b=u+Bupr7RI+OlqKz39TapIhmmWrobGDshCEX0gADz+EuoA7p1Scos85WRQWRgAGAZBR HD4zE396DEF+vt14wYuAOCYSbkEWd8m1CjDbAu63geq10V6XI4FEZa6lIhEQK+Zf+kZ1 nnCxz1Xn6jc4DDZHDz09fUXnrAQhbtzrH0p2okV2876vi8jiLiSOu0LZGfFPMVDqNVDm zQvUo7zuuseoZxDjHwj6pDQk1ousUCFr0u8mVU0m2LkjEZSuQVbRC2U/tJqgYycoBIzE f2AC75nzoxYYUVs+vQ/BmQPNVdK8MuqRaRgsmN9NLIGbJeZwOqx3KLIGFmRX9vLNcPWA 3Vdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IUtLJrexeGplSyl7o3q+S+omaXxFo4s+W5o3p02YR7w=; b=Tg8F+NIqcxZ6NGfe44/hl8s7qcCxxQRnx7ce0HG/alGRJxiXI7H5q9j4VluJvAueKC KAYu452JV2QZOHCwqY935Zw6daZDPupmAauplAFIRSRDXYyiGeJ55MkkFDoqjki8j7LL SJN7EqyLu4t06rRGXqTa1edWfVm8T+4238rRcVxsVmL7V+8zIDRExOQl2QtYKbxbBIwF 3HhzLW+DK/PhQI8X2IQ2RLUUfXjX7wKI8h845pJRO3sS17FPYvzKnRPYzUlho4uAQeQU NNyAclkHXwq3lVCv5PhK2codd+3Z7xBG5rF4BjJ1FJRl49CiDcqGsNNjYtdSTPmRNH4E nskg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC01ZoMjsDpRC6JRtH8aXpUlTL7UcogfPhRvFn+CmuKFqIXDhJhxshaDYnUGX0+D1Uw== X-Received: by 10.237.42.65 with SMTP id k1mr2010730qtf.210.1479902351652; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 03:59:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [100.108.135.41] ([142.169.78.41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 31sm16098959qty.30.2016.11.23.03.59.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Nov 2016 03:59:10 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-7C722EA4-9307-4DC1-B637-AE3B2DD1E307 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kelvin Edmison X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14B100) In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 06:59:08 -0500 Cc: Dave Taht , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <8d72490d-551a-c58f-991a-1750e9af8df9@gmail.com> To: Mikael Abrahamsson Subject: Re: [Bloat] fixing bufferbloat in 2017 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail-7C722EA4-9307-4DC1-B637-AE3B2DD1E307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 23, 2016, at 3:28 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >=20 >> On Tue, 22 Nov 2016, Dave Taht wrote: >>=20 >> I would like to see the industries most affected by bufferbloat - voip/vi= deoconferencing/gaming,web gain a good recognition of the problem, how to fi= x it, and who to talk to about it (router makers and ISPs) >=20 > It would be great if the realtime communications people (gaming, video, au= dio etc) had some kind of help page where people could be pointed to underst= and the problem. >=20 > I saw a Youtube video btw, where they had problems with gaming because "I'= m uploading a youtube video at the same time as I am gaming, stupid me". Peo= ple don't even realise this is not the way it has to be. >=20 > My take on this is that the problem is fairly well understood in "our" cir= cles, but the wider audience still doesn't know, and even if they know, ther= e is nowhere to go to fix it. >=20 > If we can find a product that solves the gaming community problem (they're= one of the people who have "ping" in their applications and who immediately= notices when it's bad), we could perhaps approach someone prominent in that= gaming community and making a video on how to solve the problem. >=20 > "Look here, I did and now I can game and upload a youtube video at the= same time without problems!!!!1111oneoneone" >=20 > --=20 > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat The gaming/youtube video is an excellent use case on whim to build. Simple, c= ompelling, and can easily demonstrate the bufferbloat problem.=20 One suggestion would be to talk to the people/web sites that publish reviews= of router and gaming performance. There should be only one or two people th= ere to convince regarding bufferbloat. If those people can be convinced and w= rite about it then the gaming community at large will learn about it. With a= ny luck, these reviews will also generate talk inside the router vendors as t= o how they perform and what they have to do to compete. AnandTech or ArsTechnica might be a good place to start. They have pretty li= terate staff, and AnandTech even had access to an Ixia wifi tester at one po= int. http://www.anandtech.com/show/10081/wifi-testing-with-ixia-wavedevice Regards, Kelvin= --Apple-Mail-7C722EA4-9307-4DC1-B637-AE3B2DD1E307 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



Sent from m= y iPhone
On Nov 23, 2016, at 3:28 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016, Dave Taht wrote:=

I would like to see the= industries most affected by bufferbloat - voip/videoconferencing/gaming,web= gain a good recognition of the problem, how to fix it, and who to talk to a= bout it (router makers and ISPs)

It would be great if the realtime communications people (gaming, video, a= udio etc) had some kind of help page where people could be pointed to unders= tand the problem.

I saw a Youtube video btw= , where they had problems with gaming because "I'm uploading a youtube video= at the same time as I am gaming, stupid me". People don't even realise this= is not the way it has to be.

My take on th= is is that the problem is fairly well understood in "our" circles, but the w= ider audience still doesn't know, and even if they know, there is nowhere to= go to fix it.

If we can find a product tha= t solves the gaming community problem (they're one of the people who have "p= ing" in their applications and who immediately notices when it's bad), we co= uld perhaps approach someone prominent in that gaming community and making a= video on how to solve the problem.

"Look h= ere, I did <X> and now I can game and upload a youtube video at the sa= me time without problems!!!!1111oneoneone"

= --
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
_______________= ________________________________
Bloat mailing listBloat@lists.bufferblo= at.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat

The gaming/youtube video is an excellent use case on whim= to build. Simple, compelling, and can easily demonstrate the bufferbloat pr= oblem. 

One suggestion would be to talk to the= people/web sites that publish reviews of router and gaming performance. The= re should be only one or two people there to convince regarding bufferbloat.= If those people can be convinced and write about it then the gaming communi= ty at large will learn about it. With any luck, these reviews will also gene= rate talk inside the router vendors as to how they perform and what they hav= e to do to compete.

AnandTech or ArsTechnica might b= e a good place to start. They have pretty literate staff, and AnandTech even= had access to an Ixia wifi tester at one point. http://www.anand= tech.com/show/10081/wifi-testing-with-ixia-wavedevice

Regards,
  Kelvin
= --Apple-Mail-7C722EA4-9307-4DC1-B637-AE3B2DD1E307--