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From: Neil Davies <neil.davies@pnsol.com>
To: "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <toke@toke.dk>
Cc: bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Bloat] Detecting bufferbloat from outside a node
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 11:57:53 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <AA05A0B6-F9F1-49BB-A7E5-1C0055D60DDE@pnsol.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <877fsx3l5a.fsf@toke.dk>


On 27 Apr 2015, at 11:45, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk> wrote:

> Neil Davies <neil.davies@pnsol.com> writes:
> 
>> Take a look at http://www.pnsol.com/publications.html, you may find
>> http://www.pnsol.com/public/PP-PNS-2009-02.pdf as a good starting
>> point.
> 
> I've seen this referred on the list before (I assume by you ;)), but
> haven't really grok'ed it before. I like the delta-Q measure as a way of
> thinking about overall network performance; and there's definitely
> parallels to thinking about the end-to-end 'latency budget', which I
> also find quite instructive (I think I it picked up from Joe Touch at
> some point).

You'll find the way that ∆Q can be decomposed into basis set of
∆Q|G, ∆Q|S and ∆Q|V - helps work out which parts of the budget 
get eaten up by different elements of the network design/architecture.

> 
> How do you deal with the fact that loss and delay can be exchanged for
> each other (via retransmissions)?

Yes, the QTA/∆Q framework is recursive in that sense - you can relate (for 
example) the "TCP layer ∆Q" to the "IP packet level ∆Q".

> 
> Also, which publication would you recommend if I'm interested in
> specifically how you 'Mathematically model behaviour and delta-Q' as you
> mention in that slide set? :)
> 

Depends on your starting point: 
 - if it is "how does this relate to the end user" - look at "the properties and mathematics of data transport quality" 
-  if it is "how do I measure this stuff in a real network" - take a look at "advanced network performance measurement techniques" (you can get to it off the links tab)

> -Toke

Neil

  reply	other threads:[~2015-04-27 10:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 46+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-04-27  9:48 Paolo Valente
2015-04-27  9:54 ` Neil Davies
2015-04-27 10:45   ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-27 10:57     ` Neil Davies [this message]
2015-04-27 14:22       ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-27 20:27         ` Neil Davies
2015-04-27 15:51       ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-27 20:38         ` Neil Davies
2015-04-27 21:37           ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-28  7:14             ` Neil Davies
2015-04-27 11:54   ` Paolo Valente
2015-04-27 15:25     ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-27 20:30       ` Neil Davies
2015-04-27 23:11         ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-28  7:17           ` Neil Davies
2015-04-28  9:58             ` Sebastian Moeller
2015-04-28 10:23               ` Neil Davies
2015-05-04 10:10                 ` Paolo Valente
2015-05-04 10:21                   ` Neil Davies
2015-05-04 10:28                   ` Jonathan Morton
2015-05-04 10:41                     ` Paolo Valente
2015-05-04 10:44                       ` Neil Davies
2015-05-04 10:42                     ` Neil Davies
2015-05-04 11:33                       ` Jonathan Morton
2015-05-04 11:39                         ` Neil Davies
2015-05-04 12:17                           ` Jonathan Morton
2015-05-04 12:35                             ` Neil Davies
2015-05-04 17:39                               ` David Lang
2015-05-04 19:09                                 ` Jonathan Morton
2015-04-28 16:05             ` Rick Jones
2015-04-27 20:13     ` Neil Davies
2015-04-27  9:57 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-27 10:10   ` Paolo Valente
2015-04-27 10:19     ` Paolo Valente
2015-04-27 10:23       ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-27 10:53         ` Paolo Valente
2015-04-27 20:39           ` David Lang
2015-05-04 10:31             ` Paolo Valente
2015-04-27 10:26       ` Neil Davies
2015-04-27 10:32         ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-27 10:38           ` Neil Davies
2015-04-27 10:52             ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-27 11:03               ` Neil Davies
2015-04-27 12:03                 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2015-04-27 20:19                   ` Neil Davies
2015-05-19 21:23                   ` Alan Jenkins

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