From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17B113B2A4 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 07:51:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id u13so28598345lje.5 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 04:51:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IgdSEJLBqulaUOsw3VCNa8Asi/v+31o9SFsr7c/RG7I=; b=d2UbsbJ4MlqhiJpu8+rl0GjZlXypQv2IlbkXAIr3MyY8Dkp5mQ9IslH4BKuBKDCIUC zyK34aaO2CMlSUywwhSX95rF1CwYNRb58JsFRYnXsqJTi7njECypkNHYUcy6t1Pbd47j f1AjnRR/4Z+iUfZ9KhKuZWeCDm3icw1HMVLlv9kezTwDEevkhBaPbGUR1uQNgwU7FAS6 4foC1BinZL+nIgz9q1nvzBivHGQnfcH3m0S1gGI6+ESx+GsUoTOqa5YxNTACHOnB8l0Q 27+06vNWZnC0/nDIvMiB8VCpu8zUxRFcEFEUJe/rfaMU+I2qmXQ7E6Doz2EQAyygoPvL e8rw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=IgdSEJLBqulaUOsw3VCNa8Asi/v+31o9SFsr7c/RG7I=; b=LpPsYFoZBVk9Y7wzBrIyGXuBhe+6UZ8hUXZxBd7sxux+YUogJ21R285Au8tXJr6eVH dXthhG+gy7ee3gP1cSSelD/WitHpB7B8qDkneWLXNKJaKc61v0M1TGg5Sd2/e1sHY5cP NdeIgrrth82PlcDhB9USLVvhU7NDtjm0Q6ggZaq3h2FU4WtS5oljgHq0I3uI2a+xqRXY K068/9ZO1HN57ynZkreyw5oDlJcZBl2wre8GxUtuNJJrhzfsI3wknjTvb5WsUL6xDQ+F EDICHtuDtDdadM4SDLxcvnwCcA5JDNBF88e5okF77D7Pr1DtjcRdcgnCKlD7KhejiT3i vJUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533L+XCgwZpmT+PtnSie946WAotGsL6Aia3Pnw/skaHnJA1dNEWa eEWXG1Jbo8Es4BsKVC6mjes= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxxzMwLpxUSMQhwye6+9FoV1js0zpNvz703U2ktFjwjYDf0RH5hu8IeiTFESUnURFwZB2oVcg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:906:: with SMTP id e6mr18551273ljq.160.1628596299696; Tue, 10 Aug 2021 04:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (178-55-56-220.bb.dnainternet.fi. [178.55.56.220]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k16sm838217ljo.37.2021.08.10.04.51.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Aug 2021 04:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 14:51:38 +0300 Cc: dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com, bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <45E365CA-A298-44D1-8D4C-2E48CB4DC0B7@apple.com> To: Matt Mathis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Rpm] Airbnb X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 11:51:41 -0000 > On 10 Aug, 2021, at 7:51 am, Matt Mathis via Bloat = wrote: >=20 > For years we published a "jitter" metric that I considered to be = bogus, basically max_rtt - min_rtt, (which were builtin Web100 = instruments). >=20 > In 2019, we transitioned from web100 to "standard" linux tcp_info, = which does not capture max_rtt. Since the web100 jitter was viewed as = bogus, we did not attempt to reconstruct it, although we could have. = Designing and implementing a new latency metric was on my todo list from = the beginning of that transition, but chronically preempted by more = pressing problems. >=20 > It finally made it to the top of my queue which is why I am suddenly = not lurking here and the new rpm list. I was very happy to see the = Apple responsiveness metric, and realized that M-Lab can implement a TCP = version of it, that can be computed both in real time on future tests = and retroactively over archived tests collected over the last 12 years. >=20 > This quick paper might be of interest: Preliminary Longitudinal Study = of Internet Responsiveness Intriguing. The properly processed version of the data will probably = show the trends more clearly, too. I think there is merit in presenting the European data as well, so long = as the discontinuities caused by topological/geographical alterations = can be identified and indicated. There are some particular local = phenomena that I think would be reflected in that, such as the early = rollout of fq_codel by free.fr. - Jonathan Morton=