From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "alln-iport.cisco.com", Issuer "HydrantID SSL ICA G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5401121F377 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 11:44:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2549; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1424979921; x=1426189521; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=mLIvL5LVBS+MRwT+qjI7cOgJITpISxIDy2LZyblcZl8=; b=bmoYOS6k4ECvGDvPRq4kDYxVIgwxyOsdz7wGReXbUhhLxfhZSQSPM6Dj bvSj6XTFUbjy5lpYTSOMdpn+fA7LjxnQQuFESQEh6WKD68gHAZTcRGnvF 5x8CyYI8DY4XRX1vdTc9oLDM7cJnC5KzumLiShptqQtFB+H44zlKtqBxu A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DaBQDidu9U/4cNJK1bgwJSWgTBeQqFcAKBJE0BAQEBAQF8hA8BAQEDAQEBATc0CwUHBAIBCA4DAQMBAQsUCQcnAQoUAwYIAgQBDQUIDAaIDQgN1ycBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXixOEDBEBAh0xBwaDEYEUBYVtigKDYINGgzqOcIM+I4Nub4ELOX8BAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.09,654,1418083200"; d="scan'208";a="127288147" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Feb 2015 19:44:51 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com [173.36.12.87]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t1QJiom1004981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 26 Feb 2015 19:44:50 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.172]) by xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com ([173.36.12.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 26 Feb 2015 13:44:50 -0600 From: "Bill Ver Steeg (versteb)" To: Mikael Abrahamsson , Dave Taht Thread-Topic: [Bloat] RED against bufferbloat Thread-Index: AQHQUOVIou8yN6f/akWDRV/hth0HI50Bk82AgAAr+ICAAAMuAIAACzqAgAAfaQCAABfyAIABQ/8AgAAULoCAAANWAIAAEJsAgAAd0ACAAB/6gP//peRQ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 19:44:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <201502250806.t1P86o5N011632@bagheera.jungle.bt.co.uk> <4A80D1F9-F4A1-4D14-AC75-958C5A2E8168@gmx.de> <3F47B274-B0E4-44F2-A434-E3C9F7D5D041@ifi.uio.no> <87twyaffv3.fsf@toke.dk> <1D438EDC-358D-4DD5-9B8D-89182256F66C@gmx.de> <54EDD951.50904@orange.com> <54EE07C0.60703@orange.com> <54EF2877.8030302@orange.com> <54EF3932.6020007@orange.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.117.75.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net" Subject: Re: [Bloat] RED against bufferbloat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 19:45:20 -0000 Guys- If you want to drive AQM requirements into router/switch specification, cou= nt me in. We need to be careful to specify behaviors, as opposed to impleme= ntations. If we start to specify implementation details, the process will g= et bogged down in intractable differences. There is a lot of variability in= what the existing hardware/software queueing components do, and we need to= allow some leeway to "do the right thing" on the various platforms. Given a good set of requirements, the community can both 1) work on next ge= neration chipset/software/firmware/memory/board/architecture that do AQM i= n an optimum manner and 2) make (hopefully simple and well-bounded) changes= to the existing software/firmware. Bvs =20 -----Original Message----- From: bloat-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net [mailto:bloat-bounces@lists.buffe= rbloat.net] On Behalf Of Mikael Abrahamsson Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 1:59 PM To: Dave Taht Cc: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] RED against bufferbloat On Thu, 26 Feb 2015, Dave Taht wrote: > First, everyone saying that fq_codel can't be done in hardware is > *wrong* See my last point far below, I know I write over-long emails... What do you define as "hardware"? > YES, at the lowest level of the hardware, where packets turn into=20 > light or fuzzy electrons, or need to be tied up in a an aggregate (as=20 > in > cable) and shipped onto the wire, you can't do it. BUT, as BQL has I am talking about doing this in the NPUs that are available on the market = today and in the future. We're talking about these kinds of devices: http://www.tilera.com/News/PressRelease/?ezchip=3D97 I'm afraid that your experience with CPU driven devices isn't a great match= here, and we're talking past each other. I would love to be able to use my employers purchasing power to drive deman= d on AQM, but I need to know what the requirements are, and that they're fe= asable to do, preferrably with an engineering effort for the vendor in the = range of few man years. I can't produce this document myself, I have alread= y tried pointing them in the direction of presentations etc, but I need "ha= rd" documents, outlining exactly what they need to do. Do we have this currently? In that case, whereto should I point them? --=20 Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat