From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-23-ewr.dyndns.com (mxout-080-ewr.mailhop.org [216.146.33.80]) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57CB42E015C for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from scan-21-ewr.mailhop.org (scan-21-ewr.local [10.0.141.243]) by mail-23-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A14F4585A for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 18:21:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Mail-Handler: MailHop by DynDNS X-Originating-IP: 209.85.215.43 Received: from mail-ew0-f43.google.com (mail-ew0-f43.google.com [209.85.215.43]) by mail-23-ewr.dyndns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E2E43FBE for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 18:21:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ewy20 with SMTP id 20so1201182ewy.16 for ; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:21:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to:x-mailer; bh=iJg+AzzHCPJ6ZJVyMMvIYbRiS8ySugT+kL5H83epaLc=; b=mbj1mQmKYjO0WYmpkN6EFiwcsBjrgTMrp59wNp6q9gwcvtfCX4Vm7caj+hH/TAvh+R 8MQfoTAP4BRFnZotUAMZ0At6rcsBQiqPNxtkT38gPS3G4OYyBwsQ8pL+hqe8f+0BfqSF 2aTHvebPmA1UOm63mplNjlER0Bw0tmZdy0iXc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=nWMYs+OmSjdJOizTxUSUrKey4ZEgBQRCQM7nOuIK3dOSJEXbTyi207Y6CjksUDrBQG 18JA/1z5zCRZz1l7GRb5g/HyyShdKQMl7cyRrGsfwvOhPgLny7MhOSUiIkxi0WkPo4B3 O3pSQIESfcSLXNbzVxw33F1UyDyEIc3q0redo= Received: by 10.213.98.144 with SMTP id q16mr1537150ebn.61.1299867685965; Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:21:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.239.42] (xdsl-83-150-84-172.nebulazone.fi [83.150.84.172]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x54sm3695037eeh.23.2011.03.11.10.21.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:21:25 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <878vwlr0rl.fsf@cruithne.co.teklibre.org> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 20:21:23 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6210AF7E-3EB3-4199-A87B-A54B0F73A106@gmail.com> <20110311092157.23dea5e8@nehalam> <878vwlr0rl.fsf@cruithne.co.teklibre.org> To: d@taht.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Dave_T=E4ht?=) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: Stephen Hemminger , bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] Taxonomy of various sender-side TCPs X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 18:21:32 -0000 On 11 Mar, 2011, at 8:05 pm, Dave T=E4ht wrote: >> On the subject of ECN, my impression is that YouTube currently >> doesn't enable it, but a one-man company I recently downloaded some >> stuff from does. I wonder if there's any reliable data on how many >> of the most popular sites enable ECN if you ask for it. Personally, >> I think IPv6 and ECN should probably go together - v6 gear is new or >> upgraded anyway so there shouldn't be any legacy problems. >=20 > I agree, but lack data. What TCP algorithms are available in the IPv6 > stack on Linux? I know SFB works with both ipv4 and ipv6... AFAIK, the TCP congestion algorithms are all implemented independently = of IP version, so even the exotic ones are available in v6 already. I = don't think they need to look at the addresses or port numbers. The qdiscs are also relatively protocol-independent in themselves, I = think. Classifiers are mostly what need to examine the addresses and so = on. In particular, I'm pretty sure SFQ works, and that *does* depend on = flow identification, so there is no reason why a competent = implementation of nRED or SFB wouldn't. > ECN has been enabled on kernel org for 8+ years. Which is great, except that ECN is still not universally enabled = client-side, so many problems with random ISPs are still masked until = someone starts doing something unusual. More relevantly, what is the situation with Windows (XP/Vista/7), MacOS = X, and the prominent mobile OSes (Android, iOS)? Do they attempt ECN = negotiation already? What happens if they encounter a black hole while = doing so? - Jonathan