From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAC4A3B29E for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 12:03:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id a2so46847458lfc.9 for ; Tue, 25 May 2021 09:03:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=kXTvhYGIQAN2oFuBpbklXKoKv5HysXx+vvz7YQNl6Bw=; b=Kp3/cgFXiYr4ldKMnD/y4OQTjyJCLTelD8cwSTpSLhzxlsFMPAXX2EuPzggqMI2Qe9 e52rrzbhqIwJYq1LMc5LjuZiTt8W1sZGwJ8K+J6U+YACL+10kdqxmo6IOaep5+CvrY9u ajxXmPVoKCtJqZ43nx4kJFfxhgrwuARufBMGsmMCvZ6h1AWTfke07as4dMSg1stVv9ex LKjlDba/MzOR1bFINS3qttGAjbSDsVJe+qitp5v3DDp4ELErHQMQjvOH8h0sw9q5Yx8L Oec0KS5Vtnb1b6aW9TYlvcw/NZDnmoef7r5tim/VfnnfoIAB/AhTaIpdksHSv1OJ3k4H t/Yw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=kXTvhYGIQAN2oFuBpbklXKoKv5HysXx+vvz7YQNl6Bw=; b=Aw7ZNBTVlyWKDASi4/ekf7/8bj2/2rQPf2XXr7gh+BGY9X4yOnB90oMspNFmCH7EId wChuNQbeAP/hLS+7w6/m4v499gQW61W7kYty/EzZ29VWBDO0KKkZ74ajjAk6HfzbVT/8 RyHlbt+nuHHs+CRTMlpcv++Kpi5eA9+c8XgRNZuNA5G/vODhZncXdnusy4mFBhe8begQ d1BzmpbU3C7xa7RmARttZPf+oWIEVVsaPWW3e6C3Vm06IqDlSCymXMmk7yAoVjUHaqD2 X3cwIm5kjSbVEpQVQHFgnq8r+iO4VOBi051p8cItPgoAXTOs+1vMhqnMCr0R3ocSrYpR Kv2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530vWk6kpzGAW5/0OvpXMhsWY9kV4HyP9Ml/s1eonT8vH3rA4cKr J9zZOWKswC04GhlAiuMHqo4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJztMrQ6Bk9KGxEWv3TGbZPfQMc4MQeNY1NVG/BFw4hsjSuBWNaHrbzxA3BxQPlGYiF8PwkIAQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:569a:: with SMTP id 26mr14105964lfr.170.1621958615538; Tue, 25 May 2021 09:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (37-136-237-77.rev.dnainternet.fi. [37.136.237.77]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x30sm1773634lfn.221.2021.05.25.09.03.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 May 2021 09:03:34 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.7\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <3DC2F247-63C2-4753-9E44-2F494E545FEA@apple.com> Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 19:03:33 +0300 Cc: "Livingood, Jason" , "bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <8CA408F6-C8FA-4AAF-908A-B52BDC5030FF@cable.comcast.com> <3DC2F247-63C2-4753-9E44-2F494E545FEA@apple.com> To: Stuart Cheshire X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.7) Subject: Re: [Bloat] AQM & Net Neutrality X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 May 2021 16:03:37 -0000 > On 24 May, 2021, at 10:18 pm, Stuart Cheshire via Bloat = wrote: >=20 > When first class passengers board the plane first, all economy = passengers wait a little bit longer as a result. Technically, they all get to the runway at the same time anyway; the = first-class pax just get out of the terminal to sit in their airline = seats waiting for longer, while the more congested cattle-class cabin = sorts itself out. If the latter process were optimised better, the = first-class passengers might actually end up waiting less, and pretty = much everyone would benefit accordingly. Where first-class passengers *do* have an advantage is in priority lanes = at check-in and security. It means they can turn up at the airport = later to catch the same flight, without fear of missing it and without = having to spend unnecessary hours in duty-free hell. They also get = posher waiting lounges with "free" food. It is that sort of atmosphere = that Net Neutrality advocates object to in computer networking. I believe NN advocates will respond positively to concrete signs of = improvement in perceived consumer fairness and reduction of costs to = consumers. I also believe that implementing AQM well is a key enabler = towards those improvements. That is probably the right perspective for = "selling" AQM to them. - Jonathan Morton=