From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp152.dfw.emailsrvr.com (smtp152.dfw.emailsrvr.com [67.192.241.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B99473B260 for ; Sun, 4 Dec 2016 11:08:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp16.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp16.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 4DDB7A01E0; Sun, 4 Dec 2016 11:08:22 -0500 (EST) X-Auth-ID: jf@jonathanfoulkes.com Received: by smtp16.relay.dfw1a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: jf-AT-jonathanfoulkes.com) with ESMTPSA id 114DCA01BF; Sun, 4 Dec 2016 11:08:21 -0500 (EST) X-Sender-Id: jf@jonathanfoulkes.com Received: from jonathans-mbp.lan (h203.92.184.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net [173.184.92.203]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:587 (trex/5.7.12); Sun, 04 Dec 2016 11:08:22 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) From: Jonathan Foulkes In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 11:08:21 -0500 Cc: davecb@spamcop.net, bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <836b6c89-d7a0-49e1-e1b4-8e98b9263c1d@pollere.com> <8A0CE391-C77E-4B3F-B2B0-7F9FDDB8DFCF@superduper.net> To: David Lang X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) Subject: Re: [Bloat] How to "sell" improvement X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2016 16:08:22 -0000 Hear, hear, the concept of having =E2=80=98simulators=E2=80=99 for = typical heavy modern web pages is exactly what we need to get across the = benefits of lowered bloat having a larger impact on page-load = performance than =E2=80=98speed=E2=80=99. Those simulated pages should report total page load time and maybe even = how many objects we=E2=80=99re =E2=80=98missed=E2=80=99 due to bloat = induced issues. These sites can then be recorded as they perform on various types of = lines and bloat and allow for a really impactful before/after video to = be produced. Here are my suggestions for candidate =E2=80=98sites=E2=80=99: News Site front page, with mix of uniquely fetched text areas and = images. Also, dozens of ad-like payloads sourced from multiple domains. News =E2=80=98content=E2=80=99 can actually be a bunch of educational = material on Bloat, why waste an opportunity to further the message ;-) Shopping site with tons of images and other smaller payloads, generating = >300 requests. Again, content can be designed to further our message. What do we need to do to move this forward? I have an experienced graphic designer and web-master that I can direct = to help with some of the content and creative work.=20 But what we need first is some agreement on general scope and then a = technical framework to achieve the desired outcome. Cheers, Jonathan > On Nov 28, 2016, at 2:40 PM, David Lang wrote: >=20 > On Mon, 28 Nov 2016, David Collier-Brown wrote: >=20 >> Yes, especially for >>=20 >> * the performance-reporting tools' own page and also for >> * some well-known, moderately complex ones. >>=20 >> Not the minimalist Google front page, but perhaps a particular = query... >=20 > First off, can we get people to nominate candidate pages? >=20 > Then, let's see if we can make a simulator for that page, so the test = won't break when the website gets updated, something that has the same = serialization issues hitting multiple sites and fetching a bunch of = items of various sizes (ideally, but not neccessarily involving slight = delays on the server before returning the objexts) >=20 > turn this test into a apache module so it's easy to use and isn't = affected by system variations (and eliminates possible security risks by = having the module not access anything on the system) >=20 > Then get this deployed a bunch of places. >=20 > David Lang_______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat