From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wy0-f171.google.com (mail-wy0-f171.google.com [74.125.82.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D3D8201A46 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 11:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wyb32 with SMTP id 32so1013598wyb.16 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 11:13:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=R6km79J4a9pEjCoeshbDJMTE1U14e7nVL3pr7YFiy+Q=; b=gProXssY0nX+t6D8d0kPFalNF0mh22oqEweyWJT+eMRG48ORR9fHDiQyk3DEutBNQs qNVUvRBu8Zm9okYUVC4tSFNcU8bvwsXy/G4MtY5DQctZqpARqxwSsUC1Ak4QC3wBqGuq cWrz2C0QVDCSvAVY0GF4qj8S11kWf8ih+pUJs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; b=S+tXO7+EVsb4CmuqwJgy+n/hDv9sda6hAt9/m02YRsg1Q/G0W6SY5bNLFydXlIudZ7 y0jj2CK5uv54krNHPt3ZXc2c7qWMWVVjYW1xtv5TDRpjZeyiyPA5IZsVuErd/spZz9dr RJ6nLZUiT5Q/pRL1GlxFrusLB4t9YwJzMWXLc= Received: by 10.227.166.15 with SMTP id k15mr1100238wby.204.1303841614136; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 11:13:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.21.218 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 11:13:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Dave Hart Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 18:13:14 +0000 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] Network computing article on bloat X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: davehart_gmail_exchange_tee@davehart.net List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 18:13:17 -0000 On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 17:05 UTC, Dave Taht wrote: > Not bad, although I can live without the title. Coins a new-ish phrase > "insertion latency" > > http://www.networkcomputing.com/end-to-end-apm/bufferbloat-and-the-collapse-of-the-internet.php The piece ends with a paragraph claiming preventing packet loss is addressing a more fundamental problem which contributes to bufferbloat. As long as the writer and readers believe packet loss is an unmitigated evil, the battle is lost. More encouraging would have been a statement that packet loss is preferable to excessive queueing and a required TCP feedback signal when ECN isn't in play. Cheers, Dave Hart