From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qg0-x22d.google.com (mail-qg0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF1EE21F409 for ; Sat, 16 May 2015 04:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qgew3 with SMTP id w3so22466669qge.2 for ; Sat, 16 May 2015 04:43:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=cigNz21L5WuwBgXr6droRy9n6AVEB3MbuHuc08UjmIQ=; b=fTJmVrPRIEhGYAksz66IiYK53ceplZCfNAp+8jNG/1sJP9bTbdYL6n8hnmVKHz2d29 atSe4cXUROwxPchMYOc45oy0B3a1wHnwRtDnBKkSxeMmYwR/vk67i8d3LR8YMXhReWWP lt2MZ3G8licaNa7T/5OfAOoIdmVVge/mOMfKyTJhgSpyAqbfgqk6+agxKe4A6lCdfD7F 7KNM6oyIZqBiNrb1jOFdGdNKPyOUWqONNw0GUXyhT4chI18w/ZZtdCbhuOqjeAMrSEk6 QVW8QV0rHrwR2B3NpeGOHMCStEfjwGYub5O2QmhEVjUPeKi8YIwRNXyQLvpV+Kj8yut1 mskw== X-Received: by 10.140.135.18 with SMTP id 18mr18602781qhh.71.1431776607029; Sat, 16 May 2015 04:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from richs-mbp-12926.lan (pool-64-222-223-174.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net. [64.222.223.174]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id a82sm2981899qka.0.2015.05.16.04.43.25 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 16 May 2015 04:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D25E72FF-683C-4C9D-82BE-B5736FEB3958" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Rich Brown In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 07:43:24 -0400 Message-Id: References: To: Jim Gettys X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Cc: bloat Subject: Re: [Bloat] General Bufferbloat Testing Document. X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 11:43:58 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 11:43:58 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 11:43:58 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 11:43:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D25E72FF-683C-4C9D-82BE-B5736FEB3958 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Jim, I'm glad you've got this letter going. I have started to write = (mentally) this note several times, but two things always checked my = momentum: - Last summer, I sent notes asking the big speed test sites simply to = add a latency test. (speedtest.net, testmy.net, speedof.me). All three = responded that (basically) they would ask their developers about it, and = you can see the (non) results.=20 - I'm afraid that it's not in their self-interest to add a latency test. = Especially Ookla - I see their test package bundled as part of the = offering for lots of ISPs. Ookla are hardly going to "enhance" their = speed test in such a way that customer's customers can plainly see, = "Congratulations on starting your service with us. You can see your = speeds are pretty good, but you get an F- for bufferbloat." The latter point is the reason that I'm so glad that Justin has added = the latency test. DSLReports.com doesn't have any sacred cows to = protect, so they're free to call it as it is. And I also love that they = do it with a letter grade: "Hey, dude. Your connection is bloated, and = you get a D". There is still a long row to hoe, but as more and more people get = de-bloated, the test will help spread around the knowledge that "it = doesn't have to be that way".=20 Rich On May 15, 2015, at 12:16 PM, Jim Gettys wrote: > Even before I knew about the wonderful DSLreports bufferbloat test, I = had started working on a document to help people like that (e.g. Ookla) = understand how to do bufferbloat testing. The document also grew a bit = beyond that topic, by the time it was done.... >=20 > The document is at: >=20 > = https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z5NN4WRKQKK-RtxtKR__XIwkybvsKEmunek2Ez= dw_90/edit?usp=3Dsharing >=20 > Comments welcome.=20 >=20 > It's intended long term home is the bufferbloat.net wiki, but I've = found Google doc's commenting feature really useful. > - Jim >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --Apple-Mail=_D25E72FF-683C-4C9D-82BE-B5736FEB3958 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Jim,

I'm glad you've got this letter going. I have = started to write (mentally) this note several times, but two things = always checked my momentum:

- Last summer, I = sent notes asking the big speed test sites simply to add a latency test. = (speedtest.net, testmy.net, speedof.me). All three responded that = (basically) they would ask their developers about it, and you can see = the (non) results. 

- I'm afraid that it's = not in their self-interest to add a latency test. Especially Ookla - I = see their test package bundled as part of the offering for lots of ISPs. = Ookla are hardly going to "enhance" their speed test in such a way that = customer's customers can plainly see, "Congratulations on starting your = service with us. You can see your speeds are pretty good, but you get an = F- for bufferbloat."

The latter point is the = reason that I'm so glad that Justin has added the latency test. DSLReports.com doesn't have any = sacred cows to protect, so they're free to call it as it is. And I also = love that they do it with a letter grade: "Hey, dude. Your connection is = bloated, and you get a D".

There is still a = long row to hoe, but as more and more people get de-bloated, the test = will help spread around the knowledge that "it doesn't have to be that = way". 

Rich


On May 15, 2015, at 12:16 PM, Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org> = wrote:

Even before I knew about the wonderful DSLreports bufferbloat = test, I had started working on a document to help people like that (e.g. = Ookla) understand how to do bufferbloat testing.  The document also = grew a bit beyond that topic, by the time it was done....

The document is at:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z5NN= 4WRKQKK-RtxtKR__XIwkybvsKEmunek2Ezdw_90/edit?usp=3Dsharing

Comments welcome. 

It's intended long term home is the bufferbloat.net wiki, but I've = found Google doc's commenting feature really useful.
          =                  - = Jim

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