From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30C823B29D; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:35:27 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1693064117; x=1693668917; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=L/eqlIMYfMRp8d9k4Iv8Lbj43QPUgy0HUGxCMNYs81Y=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=M4yQy5zNEnd1B4DolEAYWz7fJvVC7AO13QrSpRhISLPRLmJF27BSs86Ef1RY5YJNgMmqqW+ 59QUXvQqeeks50inMU7bqAE0hc5L3VvXjBHqZisC23VLJ3ZA16SMwPdXBDfU6k04Tx0gl8z/M 6w1zBAHtrvbJcYdoGZI0kzzHfiOgVSWEWvwGpur4iU5/9KDZugm9w3mFbGwm547gkH/9EqI7V VTZxX4XDrtplTvj40wllAd9RbK/k8ptER6VAxqD6/e6rgmHUNP5iFaTbN07GjgvoW9Y7sIxcX 05AyhQDgwvtt687Vcxr4PIeX+TP3uP5AX3Gqrz5LiMLqlY9DTDRQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([77.1.16.9]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MJVHe-1qGBXo3ZWK-00Jv25; Sat, 26 Aug 2023 17:35:16 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.4\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2023 17:35:15 +0200 Cc: Erik Auerswald , ECN-Sane , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <553CF2FE-5A3C-4912-B367-4BF2C6A98D2A@gmx.de> <66279D1A-5B4B-482E-91B2-86AFCFB6C20E@gmail.com> <20230826124233.GA30081@unix-ag.uni-kl.de> To: Jonathan Morton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.4) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:bsvr9O759N4WJ0gJ1uuqaDYQws6eOi8yjCLJ1k4RxXMCy4heYG9 ypZgte2lJQGUDwVhVSMwbKF1xJ3eXfcL96+rZAhg3HoceWu7eFKdj/VNISdninrhYhbvpMR V4kPdga9o5lCaVoxvI8aAF7njrLAqgp51+iSY6V5/P11LypXCJr3xwXS2SmVmeUg+rVJvhr YETZmkDTjTi/mrVJ48/BQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:Uh+Vm+ItMgc=;bNN55Xe5foVVqhMxYRpJBmIMp8K M2S4WjjjHrM/hgowL7ZIR8ZVFPs+ktNX5YQjdkIltE3LmN/LjoQtlREdff01vZlubkpWOmktz XHLqTQ57J1Ow9VLxM4xgJ+jfZ7BJ5nStX2pZNu01cbJqNKpPSWvvMeWC1tcDm1e2+LXmhzdXi /Ok4OopBHZ0Gwr30Hme+XRqCjSXYM05Y+vJlbQLY8gQjl6n5FxwA9lkZrAT9gkKAiWkjqk0sK qdgduQt81IVuWTo8D27MwHzVYX/FWNRHg1Cvkcs5gb2Tm9tz4rguBY6yL2lTnuKWjZyj1dXii /xasjQZeta8bfwEz2PtOcNrVDKFmXyIAgxLlqZbzcBDGuTThJi8ifsu2KUc2XCTymeugge3s6 CoXJO0JpYnRKl/VcbdUA77G75i5mZZ/Ia2qpaAK2NYEZEmVI1lC4USqURb09TAoSKNyP1J+W7 i++H2vNtViyL81qHZcwSem3t8v8v/vTo+6AmdcWNN9Z4gkqh2xKhY/2nbuQUKv/CI01DVh1Bk OH+R6rJhlnjpUSRVnkeaXbkvdRqpnBz9buI8I8/6/K3hBC9EtvDnL83IOEJLv3C5a4yIxEcAZ 6diJ4Qhglscv4JNJu8hmoFFUAm/A9YA9VY2case7JBDFjO6bpZUTNXVUseNCiE2WZqqdR2asg mfJJTazXw4ht42JKAU8BNmlNWJlx3e73L4ECktwClUwifUKDIWehZkkZT8aL6CWw4D+JOMnCs 97XlRXGZ5sJYnXe6g/i3ukbyOFYkzElbanAd4kCiqhiY3hqyNCfMy+A4BWSu8dX9wUshmR/kH 3QuJK9v3pdL6VB8VMfEsZeIv6gC6aEchw4jD2o6g3/UbaTYy9z/G8Fww9bAzmYPGeH+TCrWwg TK+zVjGiFlVoTK+5/zBOaGnk2DP51VYl11jApoFV1hdUqZAscXu2V3xb5of0VfSo/LhGvKUxh +jBUgg== Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Ecn-sane] quick question X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2023 15:35:27 -0000 Hi Jonathan, hi Erik, that was helpful, thanks! I now played around with tcpdump a bit an apparently: tcpdump -i pppoe-wan -v -n 'tcp[tcpflags] & (tcp-ece|tcp-cwr) !=3D 0' # = TCP ECN flags, ECN in action will allow me to quickly see whether I get ECE or CWR flags in my = traffic, so I will use this for the next steam download to see whether = there is any ECN activity. I guess ECN echos will be apparent as these = are from my host, so I might simply reduce the logging to CWR. > On Aug 26, 2023, at 14:51, Jonathan Morton = wrote: >=20 >> On 26 Aug, 2023, at 3:42 pm, Erik Auerswald = wrote: >>=20 >> I find the attached screenshot quite unreadable. >=20 > Yeah, I forgot to prevent Apple Mail from auto-shrinking it. =20 [SM] I run into this same issue from time to time ;), but even = the reduced screen shot and the surrounding informatin was enough to = find that "page" in the RFC. Regards Sebastian > Here's the original: >=20 > >=20 > I also rearranged the formula and made log-log plots over the range of = likely RTTs and bandwidths: > >=20 > - Jonathan Morton