From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x236.google.com (mail-lf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 445AB3B2A2 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 13:58:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id c13so11241487lfg.0 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:58:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fH3ZRpKLLA2sjXHP7/0kPC604gkRDclPlyO8KU68/zI=; b=Mslx7F70LY72tEOax1Y9EjTxB17DELIy8wENeXT1BsYQVXgYF2i6F0ozyw9VIgQ/2S YGv0oNJi/puW06vjGKyCwV7qw67zUtT6At/utQTf5gc4bwlIF08XyqGblIcsEF2bAVB7 wp/5tJoY7cJLC/HlLrLzMuAm2zLUUfny6sPz3OqHZfCdZ4+xsoFXdCxkcsE2rRbgqdux 6r2M30TFtvyRcYdKVXM2SYIBm/XHS4qOIM5Je96F9C6m6Cjd1X2sHn0tqe64NwkyqSYs HdNkvv1GZdYPVCPSo1BKTrcOZvVxYA8bxL2m4TC5wfkzl4pgS7v5etB6V6bXo9kTJBk2 iC9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fH3ZRpKLLA2sjXHP7/0kPC604gkRDclPlyO8KU68/zI=; b=XwHFe3UnzAgV5550QxkCJy6sY3+35pSZsH7WgdHHTD6xbyhip3mNT7MJGIG3uZSrkQ f8jlboAtTYofT1iwDj+uRSIt52jiXVEIt8OydQ/jDbkogEt6XRX4Ahg2hQldi5MkxuZG NtwjtfyLu1GOnEKm6LO4qUeGd1M+4AI7BeGO1o49KAj8deARYa9YnmGOzLj/u+tCgotM U7uP5kvFWijIuoHZ7B63c9OMOWa7jrsVYmx4ePRv0f0e5OpteBsXThSvH9xHfNv4G6hA NXynWdqVDqPbflGJ9/m6xP/uem/c/hm4J7eKXXSyopcBLixtHd7L8Lk1qEWi5XnpWOJa g73w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC01iJ7EzsWuSWk1xafZ8ZZyFJJS9gh/ATQcn5YwPfxB8Zlus9eQRT9CJr7qKj39kYg== X-Received: by 10.46.76.1 with SMTP id z1mr1953958lja.41.1479927528925; Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.100.13] (37-33-82-144.bb.dnainternet.fi. [37.33.82.144]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m129sm7464085lfe.6.2016.11.23.10.58.47 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Nov 2016 10:58:48 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 20:58:41 +0200 Cc: Rich Brown , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4BD9ED0C-9FF6-4A12-9F8C-76791BFA38E8@gmail.com> To: David Lang X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Subject: Re: [Bloat] fixing bufferbloat in 2017 X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 18:58:50 -0000 > On 23 Nov, 2016, at 20:46, David Lang wrote: >=20 > Do you need a device that ships with the fixes in it from the factory? I think this is what we should aim for. That would greatly simplify = installation for Joe Average, and it could serve as an anchor point in = the wider industry. Ideally, it would have official mutual support with LEDE or OpenWRT, so = that updates to the latter automatically propagate. Even if it takes a = month between writing a patch and being sure it=E2=80=99s reached = end-users, that=E2=80=99s still a major improvement over the status quo. It=E2=80=99s much harder to rely on firmware replacement on existing = devices, because the latter can change hardware on the same model number = without notice, or simply discontinue manufacture in favour of a new = model. That makes a minefield for networking novices to wade through. = So it=E2=80=99s fine for experimentation among ourselves, and for a = certain type of early-adopter, but not for the average gamer. - Jonathan Morton