From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd34.google.com (mail-io1-xd34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1B413B29D; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd34.google.com with SMTP id p128so9268849iof.1; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 12:39:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HC2n4gOIoVb+w5nn3cChc1iz2RHI85jCRaoSWzZM69A=; b=k/d10vyWuBY5wtZEGc0iVozv0FAeS3Shmh+05iJwxfifctuJ4PvyDKSr+lQku7apZN F7ace0duCce0C/Fm01sSVmvgkvl5qVDlJItQ9OG17CUGOfkxmujjocdHc/jclwER2QtU WpQGkuD+BRauSsh9HlwRKBcznyERCJgQ4vPani2XTXzvLlqIP15zWrWJWh6RuosuhSkJ yX/kr8iI27axcCTrTxCAuLzPlAbuoqgoUh0P6H0PoKrcEwfhTaHzFuvxNVkq2dX2jy+/ OnPhPy+yVrJpzhuCe4F5/eTrQOM+lt3nUtFQzw4Fn6H1rZPFw1PTki82TgwsJji1lxyx 0G2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HC2n4gOIoVb+w5nn3cChc1iz2RHI85jCRaoSWzZM69A=; b=Ol3PC24yz8NMLUpDOcq5W88mDSLwTYxkfAq/9T7Oqz73mbYhcDFZp/4B3ujR5Agnn4 l/JgSlpJGCLBvmorw965PjQouzUEkkAYRjklTDzKQjk3schzK4Jn5EApZtsBaxoioWRY +NUW2cLEjMi2IdzY0JkyiJyR0Ec2fYxt4SEQjnWLAEMmYtavNVnhE8p44Cfmk0bE0nPM fXeYlfM8LxK9+sa1i4ROs+CrSo06aEs1pwoezPT77wWiK72Dh6yRhgwg6k2ac0/HfE5P VRxqnuGRwMduY9fqjxY1zZ4MzpDAJJ4BiOyegLnTbCqSAeQIsvz8yt7Ek7UINQ7foEub Q2lw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+Ij/8zUImY1FV5fKvXZHYHK4hzfp0Vj+8JdEcq/4YdTBMR1thE VMiIVi/CpAiTDJG4QwdPmoDgJVDI0j4KhIf0mMc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1urCa3+MB0Qv396a4LWGYfzpg44GunpxjvK4ridu2l0z4ku3a26nYNgyA8Iyh5XmzknspAfKe16y0N+QhLyq9s= X-Received: by 2002:a02:a494:0:b0:331:bdaf:4d45 with SMTP id d20-20020a02a494000000b00331bdaf4d45mr11385965jam.230.1655667573770; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 12:39:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <81153147-A7F5-4AC7-A07A-320FBE66C94B@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: <81153147-A7F5-4AC7-A07A-320FBE66C94B@gmx.de> From: Matt Mathis Message-ID: To: Sam Crawford Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , Dave Taht via Bloat , Rpm , Sebastian Moeller Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000099d08405e1d225f3" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:23:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [Bloat] [Rpm] An 8 years perspective on broadband in the usa - fcc data X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 19:39:34 -0000 X-Original-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 12:39:17 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 19:39:34 -0000 --00000000000099d08405e1d225f3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sam, see the question below about your methodology, from your FCC report. Thanks, --MM-- Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" and use force to apply it to others. ------------------------------------------- Matt Mathis (Email is best) Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must call. On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 8:46 AM Sebastian Moeller via Rpm < rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Hi Dave, > > > On Jun 19, 2022, at 17:32, Dave Taht via Bloat < > bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > > > It's not clear if they are only measuring downloads in fig 4. ? > > > > > https://vaibhavbajpai.com/documents/papers/proceedings/fcc-networking-202= 2.pdf > > indeed: > > "The SamKnows probes measure a variety of broadband met- rics [22] over > IPv4. The tests [22] covered in this paper include: multi-threaded downlo= ad > speed, UDP latency, UDP latency un- der load, and UDP packet loss. The > tests connect to the closest measurement servers (based on round-trip > time); measurement servers are hosted both off-net (outside of ISP > boundary) and on-net (within ISP boundary). The off-net measurement point= s > were hosted by Measurement Lab (M-Lab) [23] and changed to Level 3 > Communications (CenturyLink) across ten cities in the US, while the on-ne= t > measurement targets are hosted by the ISPs themselves. The FCC publishes > the raw data for each month [24], along with annual reports on major > findings [25]. For controllability reasons, the annual MBA reports only > cover measurements to the off-net locations, i.e., latency results might = be > inflated due to geographical distance. Thus, we also consider the on-net > measurements in our analysis." > > reference 22 points to > https://www.fcc.gov/general/measuring-broadband-america-open-methodology > "Latency under load Average round trip time for a series of regularly > spaced UDP packets sent during downstream/upstream sustained tests" > > this seems to imply that it would be mixed upload/download saturation? > > > But I agree that this is unclear... maybe Sam (Crawford) knows (pun > intended), I do not have his email, but maybe he is on-list or someone el= se > can relay that question? > > Regards > Sebastian > > > > > > > > -- > > FQ World Domination pending: > https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/ > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > _______________________________________________ > > Bloat mailing list > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > _______________________________________________ > Rpm mailing list > Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm > --00000000000099d08405e1d225f3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sam, see the=C2=A0question below about your methodology, f= rom your FCC report.

Thanks,
--MM--
Evil is defined by mortals who think th= ey know "The Truth" and use force to apply it to others.=C2=A0-------------------------------------------
Matt Mathis=C2=A0 (Email is best)
Home & mobile: 412-654-7529=C2=A0please = leave a message if you must call.



<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 8:46 AM Sebast= ian Moeller via Rpm <rpm@li= sts.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
Hi Dave,

> On Jun 19, 2022, at 17:32, Dave Taht via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> It's not clear if they are only measuring downloads in fig 4. ? >
> https://vaibhavba= jpai.com/documents/papers/proceedings/fcc-networking-2022.pdf

indeed:

"The SamKnows probes measure a variety of broadband met- rics [22] ove= r IPv4. The tests [22] covered in this paper include: multi-threaded downlo= ad speed, UDP latency, UDP latency un- der load, and UDP packet loss. The t= ests connect to the closest measurement servers (based on round-trip time);= measurement servers are hosted both off-net (outside of ISP boundary) and = on-net (within ISP boundary). The off-net measurement points were hosted by= Measurement Lab (M-Lab) [23] and changed to Level 3 Communications (Centur= yLink) across ten cities in the US, while the on-net measurement targets ar= e hosted by the ISPs themselves. The FCC publishes the raw data for each mo= nth [24], along with annual reports on major findings [25]. For controllabi= lity reasons, the annual MBA reports only cover measurements to the off-net= locations, i.e., latency results might be inflated due to geographical dis= tance. Thus, we also consider the on-net measurements in our analysis."= ;

reference 22 points to https= ://www.fcc.gov/general/measuring-broadband-america-open-methodology
"Latency under load=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Average round trip time for a s= eries of regularly spaced UDP packets sent during downstream/upstream susta= ined tests"

this seems to imply that it would be mixed upload/download saturation?


But I agree that this is unclear... maybe Sam (Crawford) knows (pun intende= d), I do not have his email, but maybe he is on-list or someone else can re= lay that question?

Regards
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sebastian


>
>
> --
> FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerow= rt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat= @lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
_______________________________________________
Rpm mailing list
Rpm@lists.bu= fferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm
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