From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd2e.google.com (mail-io1-xd2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 373DC3B2A4 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 2019 19:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2e.google.com with SMTP id r144so14671375iod.8 for ; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 16:44:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UOtP2uLehmweX/1IWVleCCsSPepBaNjUyjGoHYC96f0=; b=oOu2E0VL5tRJHQmYrYYdInTziSjYmffWjI6YdZBhJ8qwDc2kJi2T7x9HxHjOshuHbv SoC0fWeXBtgdcqUswxPJcIYvT0IY1t/FpxuvhLaHZPKpxLjq7SYEqm1nnjeVIV4ztVvn wqKOJewr2mn0OJZAPsmFdrRSxcljdY3vZo+t1vPQncytXxFTIdOq2zpM85zbRtWjdgaE 6nAtPk8ztBqil01Uq6Lmarx0eu8Ga340XInaJXVz43K/42OhJpJNt1jx3Sp66DNyMHdn I4Vu9Dv6bNear5aHcjP8VuALiZfKXLT+Z2t7Nxbiu5VS518cZAmiQBqcWW9WQlarxJ+p K0og== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UOtP2uLehmweX/1IWVleCCsSPepBaNjUyjGoHYC96f0=; b=GgknC1UW6nHpJgKZVskiB3cJo4KJKgYCe9ijE9hPHrOjBfGSj+mjfUNywPJw4H3mlE R1ZEXuh5ghlPAnZit5s8xkfypN34S4ZlkdxujbaDqJi7kZ+u8IsqiNE4hMKAnzntI8C4 L8aIefLb844SEn0fU7ZqUlbM8oLHBbk24jzgXzH5BOBPBiIn4doOlj9FlFb8byc2KF4K CTWSH8v7pJrdXR4SE3xSkBzaKPx14uCT3OwhBXST/vr7ZRhiNRRUNvyC5SIJ9OLTEzVg tAj5CjvrOueUw4B1fBYx5DUBRqavyXoh0Np/0kFdFI0p0XxVES1sJQ+VjArL5niHbEKX N9cQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXyIqiQ5ZdH0kFTBLfGeT2wy66Rd8R1lI+dJHjs6j2ekQWsHZS2 tSo9/AgMtxVE245KHWuaJ7hjLrfboy3cPzuQcSI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwi8Clq8mcgu1LU2HOfsQM6w0PrmESJnuR7D4yBaI+tPVi6qv/dC5R/4b4owZ6ppstX5R9350+Hw8dS9fp3tbY= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:9b04:: with SMTP id j4mr18261369iok.45.1572738274500; Sat, 02 Nov 2019 16:44:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20191102233833.79936406074@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> In-Reply-To: <20191102233833.79936406074@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net> From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 16:44:26 -0700 Message-ID: To: Hal Murray Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] bbr on slashdot X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 23:44:35 -0000 Hi hal. long time no see. On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 4:38 PM Hal Murray wrote: > > > Sebastian Moeller said: > > Interestingly, the naive expectation in the vice text is equal sharing > > between all concurrent flows, if only we had a system that could actual= ly > > help achieving this kind of set-up that is fair to each flow... > > Is there consensus on what a flow is? Or what the unit of traffic that > fairness measures should be? > > It seems to me that it depends on where you are located. > > Consider upstream traffic: > > If I'm a workstation or server, I probably want to give equal weight to e= ach > connection. > > If I'm an exit router at a residence, I probably want to give equal weigh= t to > each IP Address. If not, pigs can game the system by making multiple > connections. But if I have a server, maybe I want to reserve or limit th= e > bandwidth it gets - reserve to keep the workstation/laptop traffic from > killing the server and limit so the workstation/laptop people can get som= e > work done when the server is busy. > > If I'm an ISP customer facing router, I probably want to give equal weigh= t to > each customer, probably scaled by how much bandwidth they are paying for. > > I don't know how to handle backbone routers. You probably want to treat = each > customer as a flow, again scaled by how much bandwidth they are paying fo= r. > But an IP level packet doesn't tell you anything about which customer it = came > from. > > If this is old news, please point me at a good writeup. I *think* we handled the majority of these use cases in the design of cake. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1804.07617.pdf somewhat missing from these is that we also want *really good multiplexing*= . > > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-205-9740