From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk0-x22e.google.com (mail-qk0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE9F73B29E for ; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 13:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id r141so8058483qke.2 for ; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 10:51:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8wWSq1mQiMJv4bKgnmP0j0bh/BCBJiPG7tIsJlslGxk=; b=uHMI0c2/yzDpyT+v2K6K/ebAUsR//Fi8Xi4fBS2koHbHfujW6F13OTZ4ILkP1hCVKq OMlInKq51hctMjom1Yrf3oDGfoSG3YG3VH9cXEt9f54SPaSzlHRe9qjDeZMjnLRmXEgJ itmG0YMmIS3PZfg0S9yjAcjugYu8Ufv+bLrG5o9v3cK9jBScPUWCK7soOMvoGBICFLPu bTwSbjBFkYoxMKtW67fOE6t3qKlHb+zQbqFZYlF2SLfqImDbtLt530WJ4oiuhjXtbUO6 yvlgHox2meHZIPUEq7rIx2T6LOURvr4emwiXNJ579XjvBBlFUgjFwuRViqYsmr7yKaOq CucQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8wWSq1mQiMJv4bKgnmP0j0bh/BCBJiPG7tIsJlslGxk=; b=bT/nZjyiiDxJDHcIAtLjGpVI6sSSqLFUPCIQwGuxQw61VkhQeHkWWhCiK8cOH+ZS8/ PSx/pFbuUq6vB5zUQpyZARm9mrrcdQL6NuzJJ9k4CSyByOLhNj8hUgSHA/lm/qAF9lMm vjf6TcSP+gmWh7w9myEOz7gR+Y1x7my9shw7rZHdP8LcQHE9hHhCSPYhUWQVbnilwaIn 3lqNhPavzvaeJ5wM2i1e2CSTqIEZ8Yo2KrN8rvF+c6GrExD2USJ2gxxdJLdM7N6Luicf I9usrxvJm32tcrAKoEwArZrHXjHmRTmRpLKoH6//mOYeN9GnPgmuVbdJnKpwap9yXAcm NhBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUheuu4nnU0eH9J+frmxlt3/dUGXEUj8xiXImbVt85on1GXxjbHy ATeNnGcoh5oOKgSWBZhlXi+G+DTRKA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QC8e55NqO1FH8LSG4j/8obxlV9ga1ulgAhM4zGbHSr9TymcH/KxOZJhmNnS07JZ34e0Gr0FaMUPSoiyVbusdMY= X-Received: by 10.55.97.203 with SMTP id v194mr4579130qkb.305.1504893098424; Fri, 08 Sep 2017 10:51:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.209.65 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Sep 2017 10:51:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170908073215.dba5utrwuwvruw55@sesse.net> References: <20170908073215.dba5utrwuwvruw55@sesse.net> From: Dave Taht Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 10:51:37 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Steinar H. Gunderson" Cc: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Bloat] dash traffic "chunklets" verses pie and fq_codel X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2017 17:51:38 -0000 On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 12:32 AM, Steinar H. Gunderson wrote: > On Thu, Sep 07, 2017 at 04:52:54PM -0700, Dave Taht wrote: >> good read: >> >> http://caia.swin.edu.au/cv/jkua/preprint/jkua-icccn2017-chunklets-prepri= nt-10may17.pdf > > Aaaaa! > > =E2=80=9CFor example, FQ-CoDel isolates individual traffic flows into > sub-queues then serves each sub-queue with a Deficit Round > Robin (DRR) scheduler. The result is relatively even capacity > sharing, which may actually be detrimental to a DASH flow > (often a single, persistent TCP connection) that is competing > with multiple other concurrent TCP flows.=E2=80=9D > > Isn't this just an AQM sabotage scheme? Well, first, a paper showing vastly better behavior for dash traffic for fq_codel over pie and tail drop was a reason to celebrate. Secondly, dash is kind of special in that you *are* constantly probing for more bandwidth for a replacement stream, and that does interact with fq in some difficult ways. I wouldn't go as far as calling using two flows to do a probe like this "sabotage", but a practical means of finding the right queue and getting a bit more bandwidth overall. The multipath mosh work (sadly still not mainlined when last I looked) was resistant to hash collisions. It is unclear from the paper to what extent the aqm kicks in - I would have liked some packet drop figures and their onset. I keep hoping to see some resumption of bittorrent experiments... Lastly, I liked the idea of a (in)stability index. > /* Steinar */ > -- > Homepage: https://www.sesse.net/ > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619