From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-x133.google.com (mail-il1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A4C73B2A4 for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 09:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-il1-x133.google.com with SMTP id o10so8194942ilm.13 for ; Tue, 18 May 2021 06:48:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=pugDTw7pZ+X5g71ckE8icDU8U08PwWksOT3BTDLGC0c=; b=lCSwhX7eqcaQlNVfHFibbRUVe5+s+X710KKKt0i7ZxujP1AoP2sHa5jHv9rWQ03dJN M50TKmyyNC9Gd4re87+5vDO5LWIadL5CXiqmKDJCxtQGzuFcmOmEx1d2XQ/Q8REb1zVA trh4LMsz0xSJEv0JKbN6gMcxfvc570tZlnhigkLi1+kx+wgvtw1IxYEQ8tYHNUlxHwZw GAG4xQjaKcFbCRHzHmb91e6KTvijq2KM/JBkEFbRt1vdu3DVNzjclP1OHtgf2DZXRgRx gESqmp7FoGkwe794+5128gl/N0nsJlJKAiKFAa1ZSBJ3z45zgrlZYq2I0AEhXqrUkdbo whHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=pugDTw7pZ+X5g71ckE8icDU8U08PwWksOT3BTDLGC0c=; b=qHAxN9bCGnJsy3+AtqNJmdGB9kdEzZ6m8PaeEvKp2TT32qnpET2AxHPu3hZ87XQawT LqOfZcdx1rPn4d4SaEXBUEzpwcsiO11nhzg0ChtA+2jZkaUuEv5O0k0WblHJ0RUK4lCe gBXPSxyxBkiyjLPgFJc9xPmtE9NxB2lDIkk0wBKHAP54CL+LO/MJdvyEEsz9lmRiBywr KpKf2Yim/vrysD/a8lmVU0EhXK6krI/tuMjrs1zSPvqirToZ15lbYXPRcWMqopPrTr7A pAiF3eGHr1Mseqjm4u/AeV6dCE5e1DrtY0Z7IqcZCMFwdoYqPZKQfV5KW4vXrovZPrGE ktZg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533LENcyv/EDIozTaiX1xnqbCn5QXrX7sBfKfW0tEKde+8eyokXm VHlWL0tRIbnOkORtg2DsCe21IuFAOn8h6XiGB+rXYw08ntQQPA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxDFWcULy9MDluB/aN13eII5trzG1KUYvEK7a+oe8CGKkvkvrKD+36UAUY97ZYrc/EiHoAPDmc5VomZtF6nGfE= X-Received: by 2002:a92:d38d:: with SMTP id o13mr206037ilo.45.1621345737372; Tue, 18 May 2021 06:48:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 06:48:46 -0700 Message-ID: To: bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Bloat] In terms of bufferbloat-aware buyer constructing a RFP X-BeenThere: bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: General list for discussing Bufferbloat List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 13:48:58 -0000 No cloudy provider (I know of) has a SLA regarding bufferbloat related issues. They sell things by the cpu, and do not guarantee bandwidth or latencies. No chipmaker tests comprehensibly for bufferbloat. Most downstream vendors have no clue, nor the users. Perhaps this document, presented as part of an RFP (request for proposal) by buyers, would be a start, much like iso 9001 compliance once was. Or, reconstructed as a survey of the industry, distributed widely? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i9-9M8589pEX_u7vKuwDFoQqbhJRlNPdLqXcxuD= P73s/edit?usp=3Dsharing It's presently short enough to repaste here, but I would prefer comments and additions be made directly on the url above. VENDOR BUFFERBLOAT[1] STRATEGY QUESTIONS What is your bufferbloat-fighting strategy across your product lines? On Cable? On DSL? On Fiber ONTs? On Ethernet? On RocE? On WiFi? On Powerline Ethernet? On Thread? To what extent have you adopted the recommendations of IETF RFC7567 ( https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7567) Across your product lines? In your cloud? In your end user products? Are you currently measuring Rate Vs Range Vs TCP RTT Latency across your wireless and wifi products as google does? What do you use to benchmark TCP RTT latency under load? Do you presently have in your offloaded forwarding engines any support for the following AQM or FQ or FQ+AQM technologies? RED HTB SFQ (dscp) SFQ (5 tuple) DRR (dscp) DRR (5 tuple) Pie (RFC8033) DOCSIS-Pie (RFC8034) Codel (RFC8289) Fq_codel (RFC8290) Cake Fq_pie Dualpi Assuming you support one or more of these, do any have RFC3168 ECN support? DCTCP ECN support? Have you successfully managed to offload =E2=80=9CSQM=E2=80=9D (Smart Queue Management) support in anything? Can you demonstrate BQL in operation on your Linux based products during your benchmarks? (tool: bqlmon) What Linux network scheduler is commonly used in your cloud, or end user products, or testing regimes? Sch_pfifo Sch_fq Sch_fq_codel Sch_pie Sch_tbf Sch_htb Sch_cake Other What operating systems are used to test with? Windows 7 Windows 10 OSX IOS Android Linux What TCP congestion controls are in use in your cloud, end user products, and testing regimes? Reno Cubic CDG Vegas BBRv1 BBRv2 Other Is ATF (airtime fairness) in your latest 802.11ac and ax router AP products= ? Do you support the Linux APIs for fq_codel for wifi? Presently we only observe Intel, QCA, and Mediatek support in the Linux mainline. If not, what are your equivalents for queue management between fast (high mcs rates) and slow (low mcs rate) stations? Does apple have support for your equivalents? Are there APIs and cross compilers to add these features available to developers? How may they gain access? [1] https://bufferbloat-and-beyond.net/ --=20 Latest Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6791014284936785920/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC